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WWII USMC Rare early First Aid Pouch Double snap


uplandmod
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uplandmod

Thanks you for your comment and your help 'FG!

 

I troll Japanese websites looking for Japanese 60's music and 80's anime model kits and every once in awhile I will look for Militaria, you figure that with how long the US has been there there would be a ton of Militaria there but I don't ever find nothing of significance. (there was a weird army wool shirt that had some strange stenciling on the back, I will have to find the picture and get everyone's opinion.)

 

This pouch had been on a site for over a year but I never wanted to break down and pay the ¥16000 for it until I found out how rare it was. One day I went on and I saw that the price had dropped! :P It was now ¥14000 and even with the terrible exchange rate and broker fees I was able to get it under $200.00, a bargain if you ask me.

 

This one was a long time coming...I'm glad I know some Japanese to make this one work out and bring it back home or else I would have been still high and dry. I've only seen the early type once for sale back in the 1990's at Kaiser Bills. If I would have known it would have taken 15 years to find another I would of have charged it (It was only in the $70 range).

 

I just need a few more odds and ends but the two big bumps (First aid pouch and Camo Shelter Half) in completing my Iwo Jima display are purchased and it is all down hill from here.

 

Leonardo

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'Flage Guy

Kaiser Bill's is always good to check out; I stopped by there a few months ago and left without buying anything...as I said to Dave, "a first for me!"

I used to see folks from Japan all over the place at the Great Western in Pomona. As you observed, obviously slim pickin's for U.S. stuff in Japan, or they wouldn't go to the trouble of coming over here!

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  • 1 year later...
jackconaway

sorry to be the bearer of bad news. but i believe this pouch to be a fake made specifically to deceive collectors. :(

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sorry to be the bearer of bad news. but i believe this pouch to be a fake made specifically to deceive collectors. :(

Sir:

With the benefit of your expertise on these pouches, perhaps you would be good enough to enlighten us as to the errors some of us may have made when the "C.DESKO" pouch was identified as original when this thread originally appeared lo' these many months ago.

 

I am certain many would appreciate your tutorial. We are always trying to learn.

 

By the way, if you are going to call something out as a fake, state your case. That's only polite. You can't just leave everyone in suspense with an undocumented thumbs down on an item. If you are going to say something like you have, you should be able to back it up. Otherwise, people may think you just like to see your own posts in the headlines.

 

Respectfully submitted for consideration,

 

Bagman

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I agree with Bagman here.

Somewhere along the line it was arbitrary decided these pouches can only be real if they have the Carr written on the back of the male snap regardless if Carr written inside the snap like this one. These was suppose to be a conversation on this but nobody stepped up to to plate to say where they got their information regarding this info, documented or otherwise.

 

Second there are about four of these 3rd patterns USMC FA pouches here on USMF made like mine, one is marked and dated another IDed to a Marine and another was from a grouping from his grandfather from WWII.

 

I agree it is an unusual pouch and different from the earlier styles but I do believe it is an original WWII USMC pouch unless somebody could definitively prove otherwise I will have to go with the opinion that it is original.

 

Thank you,

Leonardo

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I am by far not an expert on these, but when I look at the pics and compare it to the dozens of Marine Depot items I have, I think it's legit. Either that or the fakers are so good now, you will never be able to tell what is real or fake.

 

Congrats Leonardo, that is one piece that has always eluded me.

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jackconaway

Sir:

With the benefit of your expertise on these pouches, perhaps you would be good enough to enlighten us as to the errors some of us may have made when the "C.DESKO" pouch was identified as original when this thread originally appeared lo' these many months ago.

 

I am certain many would appreciate your tutorial. We are always trying to learn.

 

By the way, if you are going to call something out as a fake, state your case. That's only polite. You can't just leave everyone in suspense with an undocumented thumbs down on an item. If you are going to say something like you have, you should be able to back it up. Otherwise, people may think you just like to see your own posts in the headlines.

 

Respectfully submitted for consideration,

 

Bagman

i agree with your point. i very well could be wrong but here are the problems i found with the pouch

 

-slightly larger then usual visible snaps

-no blanket stitching on the inside of the pouch

-no markings on the male snaps

-exact same shape and design as other proven fakes

 

i didn't mean to sound so blunt. my apologies

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i agree with your point. i very well could be wrong but here are the problems i found with the pouch

 

-slightly larger then usual visible snaps

-no blanket stitching on the inside of the pouch

-no markings on the male snaps

-exact same shape and design as other proven fakes

 

i didn't mean to sound so blunt. my apologies

 

Slightly Larger Snaps than the usual snaps/No Markings on Male Snap

How do you assess this from a photo online? The best way to compare these is in person between the first two patterns and third pattern. My snaps do say "Carr" inside the female snaps and the male snaps are unreinforced, which is a common trait between all of these snaps. Like I said previously somewhere along the line a collector arbitrary felt that also needs to say Carr on the male snaps. This is somewhat new information that I haven't read anywhere until the year or so ago and nobody has been able to provide a source of where this information has came from.

 

No Blanket Stitching On the Inside of the Pouch.

Keep in mind since this is a very different pattern it's not going to have traits of the first two patterns when it comes to certain aspects in construction of the pouch. Actually having the pouch in my hands the construction is very consistent with how WWII USMC items are manufactured. As people know me here on I'm extremely critical of items I and other USMC Collectors purchase, if I had any hint that this pouch and the many other here on USMF were fakes I would be the first too say so. Having it in hand it hits everything consistent with how WWII Depot items are constructed. Having seen the many other styles of pouches like mine here also appear completely legitimate as well.

 

 

"Exact same shape and design as others proven fake"

Again, there are multiple examples of these pouches here on USMF all from different sources, and you decided they are all fakes because there is a dealer on Ebay that might be faking them?

You really need to check the multiple threads about these pouches before making an overall statement that they are all fakes.

 

I really do understand your concern about these pouches, but i've just seen to many of these 3rd patterns here on USMF that otherwise have proven to be authentic to make a blanket statement that they are all "fakes."

 

Leonardo

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jackconaway

 

Slightly Larger Snaps than the usual snaps/No Markings on Male Snap

How do you assess this from a photo online? The best way to compare these is in person between the first two patterns and third pattern. My snaps do say "Carr" inside the female snaps and the male snaps are unreinforced, which is a common trait between all of these snaps. Like I said previously somewhere along the line a collector arbitrary felt that also needs to say Carr on the male snaps. This is somewhat new information that I haven't read anywhere until the year or so ago and nobody has been able to provide a source of where this information has came from.

 

No Blanket Stitching On the Inside of the Pouch.

Keep in mind since this is a very different pattern it's not going to have traits of the first two patterns when it comes to certain aspects in construction of the pouch. Actually having the pouch in my hands the construction is very consistent with how WWII USMC items are manufactured. As people know me here on I'm extremely critical of items I and other USMC Collectors purchase, if I had any hint that this pouch and the many other here on USMF were fakes I would be the first too say so. Having it in hand it hits everything consistent with how WWII Depot items are constructed. Having seen the many other styles of pouches like mine here also appear completely legitimate as well.

 

 

"Exact same shape and design as others proven fake"

Again, there are multiple examples of these pouches here on USMF all from different sources, and you decided they are all fakes because there is a dealer on Ebay that might be faking them?

You really need to check the multiple threads about these pouches before making an overall statement that they are all fakes.

 

I really do understand your concern about these pouches, but i've just seen to many of these 3rd patterns here on USMF that otherwise have proven to be authentic to make a blanket statement that they are all "fakes."

 

Leonardo

i didn't mean to say they were all fakes. just that i have seen other fakes with that exact same construction. i'm not the one who owns the pouch and has had the opportunity to hold to pouch in person. so i very well could be mistaken.

i'm very sorry.

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  • 3 years later...
PeleliuMarine1944

I was scrolling through google images at these types of pouches where I ran across this thread. I am sorry that I am commenting on a 2 year old post, but I believe it is necessary. I've read all the replies, and I will have to agree that it is indeed a fake. If you look at the font and style of the name, it is identical to multiple fakes, also, if you look at the other thread below, in which I have included a link, you can see the fake Carr stamps, which is exactly what this one has. I believe that these pouches were made to deceive collectors, along with Depot made shovel covers. If anyone has any anything to add, please do, I would like to get an answer.

 

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/206546-usmc-first-aid-pouches-original-or-replica/page-3

post-162210-0-37056500-1493349566_thumb.png

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ParanormalTrooper

I belive i saw one of these on eBay a couple of weeks, or even a month ago. It looked like a great first aid kit, but the grommets said some wierd company instead of "United Carr". The seller said he purchased it from a collector who thought it was legit, and was selling it as a high quality reproduction for $20 or somewhere around there.

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Steve1987

Hi,

 

I covered these in my thread a few years ago, after many discussions with Terry (Bagman) who is very sadly no longer with us. I don't see any point in beating a dead horse here, if you want to avoid getting burned on one of these, read my old thread. There were several of these very well done fake pouches at SOS again this year and on e-bay.

 

Regards,

-Steve

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