N.S. MEYER HALLMARK USAAF & US ARMY WINGS, BADGES & AWARDS

[infinitig35]

This offering at eBay for a mint condition, looks brand new like out of the box selling for a reduced price, by 25%.

 

It looks authentic enough, and the thought came to mind that maybe before N.S. Meyer closed its doors and sold off to Vanguard Military that they had made some re-strikes of their popular USAAF wings, in this case an Air Crew member's flight badge.

 

I know it is possible to keep sterling insignia in safe conditions to minimize oxidation, but my wife who is of Scottish heritage and a lover of sterling silverware from her mother's side can't keep it from tarnishing over time. Oh, it doesn't happen, at least visibly over night, but over a year there is noticeable blackening to the silver finish.

 

This sterling offering is shiny like new, probably preserved with a varnish overcoat, but...I have some doubts.

 

Hey, I'm a Thomas. And Mort thought he was alone in that respect. <smiles>

 

The stuff I got from Meyer during the Vietnam War years, for my own personal uniform, the brass came with a varnished overcoat that our DIs made us remove with metal polish, the canned kind "Brasso" sold at the PX. So for a fact, insignia did come with a clear overcoat varnish, at least brass did, I assume Sterling did as well.

 

Take a look and see what you think. I am also posting two photos of an old WW2 NSM Sterling Pilot's wing, P&SC as well for comparison, it is heavily tarnished, from age and oxidation.

 

They simply don't look anything alike in overall appearance.

 

Attachment: #1 Air Crew front

 

...

 

 

Attachment #2 Air Crew back

 

...

 

Attachment #3 Pilot front (see next post)

...

See next post for Attachment #4 Pilot back

 

EOM/tmh

[infinitig35]

On closer inspection there may be some tarnish where the pin catch is soldered to the base metal, so maybe someone got a hold of a jar of silver polish and buffed it to its bright sheen.

 

Attachment #4 - final Pilot back side

 

...

 

 

But that still doesn't answer my first question, did NSM do re-strikes of their WW2 pieces?

 

I know Ira Green in the early 1990s did some historical insignia that they marketed to collectors and veteran's families.

 

In the "lean years" between major wars and high demand for their products it would seem at least feasible to think that NSM like Green and Eddie Denmark (Denmark's Military Equipment / Best Emblem / Topper Merchandising) and others did the same.

 

Tom

 

EOM/tmh

[rustywings]

Hello Tom,

Your illustrated Pilot wing appears to be an excellent example of a WWII era Meyer produced badge...but I believe your Air Crew wing is indeed a restrike. Here's a couple of images of an Air Crew wing I believe was produced during the war years. Note the difference in the pin design with a cam-stop. I suspect your pin will swing open a full 180 degrees. The cam design allows the pin to only open to a maximum of about 75-80 degrees. Besides the size difference in the hallmark and STERLING mark, note the two small raised vertical lines on the back of the wing to help accurately attach the findings.

Russ

[rustywings]

Meyer Air Crew wing...

[pfrost]

To answer your question....

 

Yes NS Meyer restruck many of their wing badges and did so multiple times. I was told that the first batch of restrikes were the balloon wings (pilot and observer), airship wings, and TO wings.

 

The WWI pilot wing version was also restruck and many are now circulating in the market.

 

Since then, just about all the NS Meyer wings have been struck again, including large number of the "alphabet" wings (service, glider, and liaison wings).

 

I agree with Russ, the AC wing looks like a classic restrike and would be one of the first AC wings I have seen that were restruck. Not very uncommon or expensive, it is hard to imagine why anyone would remake those wings for the market, but they seem to have passed that Rubicon. Go figure.

 

NS Meyer wings are a thorn in the side of many new collectors and seem to be the source of endless conjecture, comparison and arguments. Everything from the pin style (which is one of the best ways of telling most, but not all, of the fakes) to the font, size and location of the various hallmarks.

 

I was once told that NS Meyer's actually subcontracted out to multiple different manufactures and that is why they have so many variations in hallmark locations.

 

A relatively recent twist to the NS Meyer restrike conundrum has been the growing practice of grinding off the offending hallmark and adding another hallmark in its place. Thus trying to fool collectors twice, once with a restruck wing and again with a fake hallmark.

 

All in all, as a collector, old or new, you need to be able to recognize NS Meyer patterns, hallmarks, finishes, and hardware if you want to buy them. Once you handle a few good ones, the fakes aren't all that hard to winnow out (in general). You can search this forum and find many long and detailed discussions on NSM wings and other insignia.

 

Patrick

[Mark]

Pat makes some very good points. I cant keep track of all the rules and stories associated with this maker. Chasing down original NSMeyer wings can be a challenging aspect to your wing collecting efforts.

 

Here are some Meyer wings from my collection. First up is an Aerial Gunner wing I picked up at an antique store a couple years ago. A very handsome wing!

[Mark]

This Aircrew wing came with a group I got direct from the family. As seen above, this is identical to the wing Russ shared with us.

[Mark]

Here is a two inch NSMeyer Pilot wing I believe to be WW2 era.

[Mark]

Here is a wing that keeps this hobby interesting. Not Meyer marked, but clearly the Meyer design. Everything about this wing feels right. The weight, the raised sterling mark and the manufacturing process. In fact, it has some stamping characteristics - such as the almost imperceptible "lip" around some of the reverse edges - that is identical to some of my marked Meyer wings. One could argue that it was not only stamped on the same Meyer dies, but also on the same equipment.

 

The reverse is somewhat frustrating. Scorch marks around the hardware and the pin does not have the cam stop we hold so precious. Oh well.

[Mark]

Just for fun...two inch and three inch

[B-17Guy]

On closer inspection there may be some tarnish where the pin catch is soldered to the base metal, so maybe someone got a hold of a jar of silver polish and buffed it to its bright sheen.

 

Attachment #4 - final Pilot back side

 

...

 

 

But that still doesn't answer my first question, did NSM do re-strikes of their WW2 pieces?

 

I know Ira Green in the early 1990s did some historical insignia that they marketed to collectors and veteran's families.

 

In the "lean years" between major wars and high demand for their products it would seem at least feasible to think that NSM like Green and Eddie Denmark (Denmark's Military Equipment / Best Emblem / Topper Merchandising) and others did the same.

 

Tom

 

EOM/tmh

Looks to me like the Pilot wing at the bottom of post one, is a different wing than the back of the Pilot wing in post two.

Best, John

[pfrost]

Looks to me like the Pilot wing at the bottom of post one, is a different wing than the back of the Pilot wing in post two.

Best, John

 

I don't know for sure, but I suspect that is simple a distortion caused by the angle the picture was taken?

 

Patrick

[B-17Guy]

I don't know for sure, but I suspect that is simple a distortion caused by the angle the picture was taken?

 

Patrick

My wag would be that the front is a 1st pattern Meyer, and the back is a 3rd.

Also, 1st pattern was never marked like that on the back.

Best, John

[pfrost]

My wag would be that the front is a 1st pattern Meyer, and the back is a 3rd.

Also, 1st pattern was never marked like that on the back.

Best, John

 

Oh, I see what you mean. Yep, they are likely different wings.

[John Conway]

One thing I can add to this is the cam stop is just one detail in authenticating original N.S. Meyer wings as well as some by other makers but this feature is not consistent with all WW2 wings (Amcraft, Bell, etc.). This point of concern is often raised by newer or inexperienced collectors, that I have spoken with, who don't understand that knowing this detail is not a bullet-proof fail safe to protect you from fakes. The variables of manufacture in U.S. insignia can be frustrating but is the core of passion for most wing collectors!