KurtA Posted March 19 #77 Posted March 19 The bar and planchet look to be "original" strikes to me. But, it's a bit "weird". Nelson was on the crew (per the roster you posted). That's good. However, this is a Phase II or III Medal. The Amphitrite did not have a Phase I medal. Probably Phase II. Name engraving looks ok to me. If Phase II, the planchet reverse for an Amphitrite medal should have an engagement of San Juan May 12. And, should have a July 5 Cardenas bar Possibly he was not present for San Juan in May and came on board for Cardenas in July? And they gave him a planchet showing the Cardenas engagement he was at? Obtaining his records might clear this up. It was definitely re-ribboned.
CaliCollector Posted March 19 #78 Posted March 19 Thank you KurtA! Yes, if correct, it's possible this medal follows the criteria for the Jenkins medal originally posted by aerialbridge below, and that Boilermaker Nelson joined the Amphitrite after the May 12 engagement, but prior to the Cardenas July 5 engagement. I haven't been able to obtain his records yet to know what date he boarded the Amphitrite.
KurtA Posted March 19 #79 Posted March 19 25 minutes ago, CaliCollector said: Thank you KurtA! Yes, if correct, it's possible this medal follows the criteria for the Jenkins medal originally posted by aerialbridge below, and that Boilermaker Nelson joined the Amphitrite after the May 12 engagement, but prior to the Cardenas July 5 engagement. I haven't been able to obtain his records yet to know what date he boarded the Amphitrite. Excellent "precedent" strongly suggesting your medal is legit.
aerialbridge Posted March 19 #80 Posted March 19 1 hour ago, CaliCollector said: Thank you KurtA! Yes, if correct, it's possible this medal follows the criteria for the Jenkins medal originally posted by aerialbridge below, and that Boilermaker Nelson joined the Amphitrite after the May 12 engagement, but prior to the Cardenas July 5 engagement. I haven't been able to obtain his records yet to know what date he boarded the Amphitrite. Your July 5 Cardenas Amphitrite medal is authentic, except for being reribboned. Phase 2, same hand as engraved my similar medal to Passed Assistant Engineer David Jenkins, a nice example of an original ribboned medal and case. If you decide to get his service file, Geoff at Golden Arrow offers a discount for USMF members to scan service files at St. Louis and is competitive with what the NARA bureaucrats charge. Except with Geoff you know you'll get every page in Nelson's file and color scans, not xerox copies. Very possibly, one of these two is your man- Nelson Robert -- [Service Number] 001272396, [Date of Enlistment] 04/27/1898, or Nelson Robert -- [Service Number] 001865973, [Date of Enlistment] 05/08/1886. Congrats on getting an uncommon reverse Sampson medal to a ship with a cool story! And welcome to the USMF, I see you're also in CA. If you're near Tubby's in Whittier, I'll buy the first round. You might want to consider this for your library- https://www.amazon.com/US-Naval-Awards-Spanish-American-War/dp/B0DXCKWPN8
CaliCollector Posted March 19 #81 Posted March 19 Wow thank you so much for all your information and resources! I am delighted that you concur with my theory about this medal. I also thought the engraving looked like it could be the same hand. I especially appreciate your leads on Robert Nelson and your research referrals. Much needed by me. I've been a reader of the forum for years and this mystery finally pushed me to join, thank you! If I can return your hospitality, please let me know. And, I will take you up on your offer if I get down to Whittier again, as long as the rest of the rounds are on me. Same offer to you if you are ever in the Sacramento area.
KurtA Posted March 20 #82 Posted March 20 If this were my medal, I would shorten the ribbon to the standard “no bar” length. It would look much better. Just takes some basic sewing skills.
aerialbridge Posted March 20 #83 Posted March 20 7 hours ago, KurtA said: If this were my medal, I would shorten the ribbon to the standard “no bar” length. It would look much better. Just takes some basic sewing skills. There's a forum member, MMcollector (I believe), who has a lot of excellent, period ribbon stock and does a beautiful job with the stitching to mimic the original. Compare the blue stripe in the original drape Jenkins medal (natural lighting, photographed by collector/dealer Adam R.- one of the best medal photographers around) to the blue stipe in your reribboned meda- more vibrant and bright. MMcollector is down here in So. Cal. Hope you decide to order the personnel file from NARA St. Louis, and see if he's one of those two possibles that I found for "Robert Nelson". If you have access to ancestry.com you possibly might find a pension benefit card for Nelson, similar to the one I found for USS Detroit Phase 2 (same hand engraved that medal as your medal) Sampson medal recipient James D. Smith in post #53 (numbered in upper right of frame).
CaliCollector Posted March 20 #84 Posted March 20 Thanks for all the tips guys! I can see the difference in the ribbon colors. The photos are excellent including the 360 view of the rim. I'll also add that your research brought this apparently unknown reverse to light, so big kudos. I do plan to order his files. I'll check Ancestry again, but hadn't had any luck narrowing him down. I usually do very little restoration work on my pieces, not wanting to do harm them. But if this is a replacement ribbon, I supposed it doesn't alter value, no? Thanks again for all. So much appreciated!
aerialbridge Posted March 20 #85 Posted March 20 Nope, improving the quality of the ribbon and/or shorter drape like the original will only help the value.
KurtA Posted March 23 #86 Posted March 23 On 3/20/2026 at 4:28 PM, CaliCollector said: I usually do very little restoration work on my pieces, not wanting to do harm them. But if this is a replacement ribbon, I supposed it doesn't alter value, no? It doesn’t hurt to restore something that has already been restored.
CaliCollector Posted March 24 #87 Posted March 24 Thanks guys. I will consider the re-ribboning. I'll also post what I find when I do the research on Boilermaker Nelson.
devildog34 Posted March 25 #89 Posted March 25 Here's the Sampson to Private Robert Cross. I need to get pics of the rim stamping.
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