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Survival Vest


hirsca
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As you can see by the label, there isn't a whole lot of information on it. Can anyone provide additional information on it? Thanks, Al Hirschler in Dallas.

post-12790-1328460655.jpg

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As you can see by the label, there isn't a whole lot of information on it. Can anyone provide additional information on it? Thanks, Al Hirschler in Dallas.

post-12790-1328460736.jpg

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It is the Army variant of the SRU-21/P survival vest. Many hours wearing one of those.

 

Thanks hawkdriver. Is there an official name/model for it? I can't find anything like it on the web, but it's probably because I don't have an official designation for it. Thanks again, Al.

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How yours is labeled or Survival Kit, Individual, Vest Type and I think Ive seen some marked Army Vest, Survival. Its basically all the same SRU-21/P survival vest. The cover of the -10 says SRU-21/P Army Vest, Survival.

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Yep. SRU-21/P. I had lots of time wearing these, too. You'll also see them in a shiny sage green color. I found these OD green ones were damaged easier than the sage green ones.

I still have a few of these around here somewhere.

 

There should be a pistol holster under the left arm. Usually nylon holsters but you'll see the odd black leather one around, too.

 

The big vertical pocket held a survival radio -- PRC-90 IIRC -- probably long since replaced by something a fraction of the size and more capable!

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-- PRC-90 IIRC -- probably long since replaced by something a fraction of the size

 

Nope, CSEL is about twice the size, literally a brick. More capable, much more, but no smaller.

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Cobrahistorian
Nope, CSEL is about twice the size, literally a brick. More capable, much more, but no smaller.

 

I'll second that. In this time of miniaturization, someone forgot to tell the makers of the CSEL. I traded in my Thales MBITR for that friggin brick just before I got out.... not cool!

 

Jon

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I'll second that. In this time of miniaturization, someone forgot to tell the makers of the CSEL. I traded in my Thales MBITR for that friggin brick just before I got out.... not cool!

 

Jon

 

I'd much rather have kept my Hook. Much, much rather.

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Yep. SRU-21/P. I had lots of time wearing these, too. You'll also see them in a shiny sage green color. I found these OD green ones were damaged easier than the sage green ones.

I still have a few of these around here somewhere.

 

There should be a pistol holster under the left arm. Usually nylon holsters but you'll see the odd black leather one around, too.

 

The big vertical pocket held a survival radio -- PRC-90 IIRC -- probably long since replaced by something a fraction of the size and more capable!

 

Thanks FtrPlt. No evidence of a holster. I had another just like it and it also showed no evidence of having had a holster. Would this be just another one of the many variations of equipment, or do you think the holsters were removed? Thanks, Al.

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Consider that the holster may never have been attached. The vest may never have entered service and was stored in supply. If the vest was even issued, it may have not been required that the holster be attached. Once sewn on, they were difficult to remove and would have left signs in the mesh that something had been there. In the US Army reserve unit that I was in some vests had the holster, others did not. I don't recall the point ever coming into conversation among the users.

 

IH

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The holster was at the crewmember's discretion. The problem with the sewn on holsters is that the pistol would make the vest really hang on your neck. most pilots chose to wear the quick release shoulder holster because you had to have it anyway. Once you took the vest off, you would have to retrieve your shoulder holster and take the gun from the vest to the shoulder holster. So, with that said, most just wore the vest over the shoulder holster and would pull the holster out through the arm holes. I rarely ever saw anyone put the .38 in the vest holster, even when they had it installed.

When the 9mm came out, that was literally the death nell for the sewn on holsters, they could barely fit the 9mm and that thing loaded would REALLY hang on the vest.

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In my unit, the knife and holsters were present. Whether this was a squadron policy or the vests were assembled this way, I don't know. My vests always had the holster present. As already noted, they were rarely used. We had leather shoulder holsters (probably for .45s) and just popped the holster through an armhole and wore my pistol that way. Alternatively, I wore the pistol lanyard around my neck with the pistol in my flight suit pocket. Personally, the .38 was a nuisance.

 

Sidebar: Can someone explain this logic to me? I was told the reason that aircrew carried a revolver instead of the .45 (or Baretta) was over concerns the spent shell casing from an automatic jamming the flight controls. Really???? Who the f*&$% is shooting a handgun while flying? I've had my fair share of bonehead CPG's but I figured that's why they put the blast-shield between the two cockpits -- to keep me from bouncing stuff off the back of his head!

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My vest had the nylon holster for the 9mm and the knife with holder sewn on. Even though the pistol was holstered the ones we were issued as needed all had a lanyard that went over the neck, I guess to stop accidental dropping. Would have been a pain in the butt if you needed to point and shoot in hurry. Also, if you were flying goggles there was ANOTHER lanyard around your neck in case they tubes got bumped out of the bracket. Made you feel like a horse under tether.

 

IH

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Having the holsters sewn on was, unless specified in policy, was indicitive of how ambitious your ALSE guy was. Our guy wouldn't sew it on unless you asked.

As for your question, yes, that is the reason we were given as well. However, that has changed as now 58D crews shoot M4's from the cockpit for qual. In the Hawk, we would end up with brass everywhere and it wasn't uncommon to find it in the cockpit as well. As for it getting down in the flight controls, I have yet to find an aircraft that didn't have boots on the flight controls, so that argument doesn't really fly.

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In my unit, the knife and holsters were present. Whether this was a squadron policy or the vests were assembled this way, I don't know. My vests always had the holster present. As already noted, they were rarely used. We had leather shoulder holsters (probably for .45s) and just popped the holster through an armhole and wore my pistol that way. Alternatively, I wore the pistol lanyard around my neck with the pistol in my flight suit pocket. Personally, the .38 was a nuisance.

 

Sidebar: Can someone explain this logic to me? I was told the reason that aircrew carried a revolver instead of the .45 (or Baretta) was over concerns the spent shell casing from an automatic jamming the flight controls. Really???? Who the f*&$% is shooting a handgun while flying? I've had my fair share of bonehead CPG's but I figured that's why they put the blast-shield between the two cockpits -- to keep me from bouncing stuff off the back of his head!

 

 

Another reason for revolvers over semi-autos was likely simplicity. Although they only carry 6 rounds vs. 10 or 15, like a Beretta or a Glock, revolvers have way fewer moving parts, they are way less prone to problems like jamming, they're easier to clean and if you had need to fire while in flight (?) the empty casings wouldn't be flying all over the place. In extreme situations like survival in the jungle or some other less-than optimum environment, ease of cleaning and maintenance is obviously a plus.

Having carried both over my 28 years in law enforcement, I can honestly say the revolver was simpler, but I do like the Glock I carry now. Of all the semi-autos it's the best for cleaning and maintenance and clearing if jammed during a firefight.

 

Rick

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Was common practice to only carry 5 rounds loaded in the .38 to prevent an AD. Thats how my father carried his in Vietnam in a local purchased cowboy style holster as he didn't like the issue .38 shoulder rig. They had no loops for spare ammo like the local bought belt rigs.

 

A friend of mine also told a lesson learned story to me about a guy he knew that ejected from an OV-1 Mohawk in Vietnam who ended up taking a round in his leg because he had 6 rounds in the cylinder. I guess there was so much instant force the hammer pressed into the rounds primer it rested on enough.

 

Anyone know when the switch from .45s to .38s was adopted for aircrew? When my father got to Nam in 1969 He was issued a M16 and M1911. They took the 1911 soon after and gave him the M10 .38, then again later they took the M16 away til all he had left was the 38

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In 1971 as a gunner I had an M-14, because I asked for it. Was supposed to have an M-16. No pistol. I also had charge of both M-60's, the dedicated crewchief had more pressing duties with aircraft readiness. When my job with the weapons was done, I went to help my crewchief. Although I never became a crewchief until attending the 67N school later, I did learn alot from him. I think the pilots both had .38 cal pistols in addition to an M-16 which they slung over the seat armor behind them. The CAR-15 was quite new I think, the scout pilots seemed to get first crack at them.

 

IH

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A very long time ago I read an article that wheel guns were issued to aircrew because it was thought that a 1911 required two hands to use, ie pull the slide back to start operations and that a aircrew member might not be able to do that if they had an arm injury caused by ejection of the aircraft.

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Was common practice to only carry 5 rounds loaded in the .38 to prevent an AD. Thats how my father carried his in Vietnam in a local purchased cowboy style holster as he didn't like the issue .38 shoulder rig. They had no loops for spare ammo like the local bought belt rigs.

 

A friend of mine also told a lesson learned story to me about a guy he knew that ejected from an OV-1 Mohawk in Vietnam who ended up taking a round in his leg because he had 6 rounds in the cylinder. I guess there was so much instant force the hammer pressed into the rounds primer it rested on enough.

 

Anyone know when the switch from .45s to .38s was adopted for aircrew? When my father got to Nam in 1969 He was issued a M16 and M1911. They took the 1911 soon after and gave him the M10 .38, then again later they took the M16 away til all he had left was the 38

 

 

I've heard these stories about the hammer in a .38 being jarred hard enough to discharge the round, but I'm somewhat skeptical as I believe the force would have to be extreme and an exact pressure placement on the hammer to make the "floating" or "inertial firing pin" contact the primer hard enough to cause a discharge.

An AD in a revolver is very rare and usually the result of someone pulling the trigger while holstered.

 

I used to work with a guy (back in our revolver days) who would only carry 4 rounds in the cylinder....his reasoning being this...if the gun fell out of his holster and landed on the hammer, it wouldn't go off, and for the next empty chamber his theory was that if a bad guy got his gun away from him, he'd have time to run while the bad guy pulled the trigger on an empty chamber....wow! Needless to say not many officers wanted to partner up with this nervous-Nellie who thought that carrying 4 rounds was safer for the above mentioned reasons!

 

Back to the survival vest for a minute, I have a very similar one from my helicopter crew time in Kosovo, but the holster was newer than the vest and was zap-strapped on as it was not the proper holster for the vest, and yes, it did weigh the vest down and pulled on my neck, but still better than a separate shoulder holster system in addition to the vest,

 

Rick

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Used one once on an erradication flight that the Guard hooked us up with in a Blackhawk. We were joking around and the pilot told me to stick my glock in there and see how crappy it really worked. Even with my compact i was carrying it weighed it down to an uncomfortable level. Can totally understand just running the shoulder holster. As for the revolvers, not sure about army, but in the 60's a family friend flew crusaders and he had said they had both .38 ball and .38 flare rounds. I still have the strip of flare rounds w/the dummy cord still on it. I'll have to dig them out sometime.

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Back to the survival vest for a minute, I have a very similar one from my helicopter crew time in Kosovo, but the holster was newer than the vest and was zap-strapped on as it was not the proper holster for the vest, and yes, it did weigh the vest down and pulled on my neck, but still better than a separate shoulder holster system in addition to the vest,

 

Rick

 

WHAT!!! you were in Kosovo and you didn't support the local economy by buying the ubiquitous KFOR stamped black pleather shoulder holster with built in two mag holder that needed a securing band to keep the mags falling out, holster??? Shame on you, what kind of Capitalist pig are you :)

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WHAT!!! you were in Kosovo and you didn't support the local economy by buying the ubiquitous KFOR stamped black pleather shoulder holster with built in two mag holder that needed a securing band to keep the mags falling out, holster??? Shame on you, what kind of Capitalist pig are you :)

 

Actually Hawk I did support the local (false, UN generated) economy by having a leather smith handcraft one for me in black leather (probably made from one of the cows that stepped on a landmine in the minefield behind the guys shop)....and it was great quality actually, and no KFOR stamp...I still have it and use it to carry my issue Glock off-duty on occasion...

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