kammo-man Posted February 1, 2012 Share #26 Posted February 1, 2012 At a rag mill it would be $12 . At a swop meet it would be $25 on ebay is would be $45 . If you hold on to it for 475 years it would be worth $100 . is that what you mean ? owen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrapneldude Posted February 1, 2012 Share #27 Posted February 1, 2012 I will re-phrase that ........Anti-war Vet .owen Anti-war vet = Hippy. You were correct the first time. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kammo-man Posted February 1, 2012 Share #28 Posted February 1, 2012 Shrap , I was beyond being PC mate ! owen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabrejet Posted February 1, 2012 Share #29 Posted February 1, 2012 Ian Nice comparison pictures. The Gustavs werealso used.As well as MAT 49s,MP38s.MP40s etc.SEA at time was a arms dealers delight.About anthing could be found there especially in the early years.I passed on buying an 1880s era Lebel with capture papers once as well as a 98k.I also owned a Nambu that was taken there and brought back as a souviener.I do have a MAS36 with trophy tag from the 4th ID as well as a couple SKS and Type 53(with papers)and a 1944 Russian Nagant sniper(with papers). Indeed Ron...quite an eclectic mix! IIRC I've also seen an Stg 44 in Charlie's hands too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vintageproductions Posted February 1, 2012 Share #30 Posted February 1, 2012 It's even better to see the Mitchell pattern M-65 being worn, that was suposedly never made until the 1980's as a civilian piece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
501stGeronimo Posted February 1, 2012 Author Share #31 Posted February 1, 2012 At a rag mill it would be $12 . At a swop meet it would be $25 on ebay is would be $45 . If you hold on to it for 475 years it would be worth $100 . is that what you mean ? owen WOW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgtdorango Posted February 1, 2012 Share #32 Posted February 1, 2012 I would also think the size would play a part in how much its worth, like if its a extra small compared to a large or XL that someone could wear.......mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corpsmancollector Posted February 2, 2012 Share #33 Posted February 2, 2012 It's even better to see the Mitchell pattern M-65 being worn, that was suposedly never made until the 1980's as a civilian piece. I hadn't even thought of that Bob, just proves they were being worn at the time! Nice short brim tiger boonie too :thumbsup: (I'm sure Owen will be able to tell us the pattern!) Thanks for adding the pics Ian, you can pick up a Madsen from Worldwide Arms in mint condition for a fairly decent price at the moment. I did consider it when I was more into Vietnam stuff. Ron, amazing to think of the variety of firearms that ended up in SEA at that time...I'm sure we've all seen the photos of MP40s and M3 Grease Guns too! Good topics, Will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taucco Posted February 2, 2012 Share #34 Posted February 2, 2012 http://images.google.com/hosted/life/l?img...253d20ad936f1b6 this is the whole vvaw photo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabrejet Posted February 2, 2012 Share #35 Posted February 2, 2012 http://images.google.com/hosted/life/l?img...253d20ad936f1b6 this is the whole vvaw photo. LIFE magazine's archives are a veritable treasure-trove of military/military-related images, WW2 > KW > VN and beyond. Great stuff! :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunbarrel Posted February 2, 2012 Share #36 Posted February 2, 2012 http://images.google.com/hosted/life/l?img...253d20ad936f1b6 this is the whole vvaw photo. Easy to find once someone tells you it's there. The trick is going through hundreds of these photos to pick out the good stuff. There was nothing else worth saving from the rest of the picture, or the rest of the set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kammo-man Posted February 2, 2012 Share #37 Posted February 2, 2012 The one hippy has a NVA flag t-shirt on . uuugh . owen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwb123 Posted February 3, 2012 Share #38 Posted February 3, 2012 Gentlemen, Let's be careful about the terms we apply to people. Let's assume that the individual wearing the Combat Medic Badge earned it. Army Regulation 600-8-22 -- Military Awards "The CMB may be awarded to members of the Army Medical Department (Colonels and below), the Naval Medical Department (Captains and below), the Air Force Medical Service (Colonels and below), assigned or attached by appropriate orders to an infantry unit of brigade, regimental, or smaller size, or to a medical unit of company or smaller size, organic to an infantry unit of brigade or smaller size, during any period the infantry unit is engaged in actual ground combat on or after 6 December 1941. Battle participation credit alone is not sufficient; the infantry unit must have been in contact with the enemy." The individual whom we are deriding as a "hippy" may very well have saved someone's life in a combat zone, and perhaps even done that multiple times. Degrading an individual's military service is counter to the goals and purposes of this Forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kammo-man Posted February 3, 2012 Share #39 Posted February 3, 2012 Gil , From me its not meant in a nasty way . here is a piece of poster art from my collection from the late 1960s . owen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irish Posted February 3, 2012 Share #40 Posted February 3, 2012 Gentlemen, Let's be careful about the terms we apply to people. Let's assume that the individual wearing the Combat Medic Badge earned it. Army Regulation 600-8-22 -- Military Awards "The CMB may be awarded to members of the Army Medical Department (Colonels and below), the Naval Medical Department (Captains and below), the Air Force Medical Service (Colonels and below), assigned or attached by appropriate orders to an infantry unit of brigade, regimental, or smaller size, or to a medical unit of company or smaller size, organic to an infantry unit of brigade or smaller size, during any period the infantry unit is engaged in actual ground combat on or after 6 December 1941. Battle participation credit alone is not sufficient; the infantry unit must have been in contact with the enemy." The individual whom we are deriding as a "hippy" may very well have saved someone's life in a combat zone, and perhaps even done that multiple times. Degrading an individual's military service is counter to the goals and purposes of this Forum. Thanks Gil, in our enthusiasm we need to be careful not to degrade others service or beleifs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Force Posted February 3, 2012 Share #41 Posted February 3, 2012 Not like this. nice tiger stripe boonie in cobination with mitchell camo m-67 style jacket! thats a awesome picture!! thanks GB Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deros Posted February 3, 2012 Share #42 Posted February 3, 2012 It's even better to see the Mitchell pattern M-65 being worn, that was suposedly never made until the 1980's as a civilian piece. Makes me happy to have sprung for a repro... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deros Posted February 3, 2012 Share #43 Posted February 3, 2012 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vietnam-Era-Duck-H...2#ht_782wt_1270 I always associate however this type with the KAMO brand, like other posters here. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vietnam-Duck-Hunte...#ht_3338wt_1037 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrapneldude Posted February 4, 2012 Share #44 Posted February 4, 2012 With regards to the term "Hippy" -- in the context of that one particular photo: 1) Yes, the individual wearing a Combat Medic Badge may well have saved lives in battle, and is therefore eternally entitled to think whatever he wants about the war.... 2) Problem is... he's chosen to side with, in the instance of the VVAW, a group of self-professed anti-war hippies who were found to have many, many posers and non-veterans among their ranks (*look up the Winter Soldier hearings) who unabashedly exaggerated, fabricated, and lied about their service and about atrocities being committed by other US Forces in Vietnam. 3) In nearly every other case, I would never use negative terminology to describe any combat veteran or their views - if anyone has earned the right to be opposed to war, it's a man who as experienced it first hand. There has to be an exception for those who knowingly and willingly side with groups in direct opposition to their comrades still serving. The VVAW did exactly that, and their words and actions were harmful to other military personnel still in. Combat Medic or not, the guy in that photo is standing shoulder to shoulder with someone proudly wearing enemy colors, which is tantamount to treason in the eyes of this combat veteran. Worse than that, the men in that specific photo were not only protesting the war, but protesting the imprisonment of other hippies who were planning to kidnap a US government official. Expressing his views publicly is OK by me, regardless of what they were, but he categorized himself as a hippy -- or worse -- by joining with these folks. The nature of the American republic and the rules of free speech dictate these men had every right to say whatever anti-American garbage they wanted to, and the freedom to associate with any anti-American nutjobs they wanted to, and in this case, the guy in the photo is guilty by assciation of being a hippy. A hippy with a combat medic badge is still a hippy. While we as a community of military collectors and history preservers ought never to deride the honorable service of any of our nation's combat veterans, we owe it to the current and future generations not to present a distorted view of veterans as being noble, infallible, perfect pillars of society post-discharge. Any attempt to give the same regard we save for true war heroes to a man who would associate with people who HATE his country and are pro-communism is silly and counter-productive to the preservation and discussion of United States military history. My 2 cents. Feel free to disagree with me -- I wasn't around during Vietnam and I don't pretend to know what it was like for returning veterans amid the hippy counter-culture, but history records that among the VVAW movement, there were some very unsettling agendas, which I would hope any self respecting American would find objectionable, moreso than use of the term "hippy." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwb123 Posted February 4, 2012 Share #45 Posted February 4, 2012 I was around during the Vietnam War. It was my teenage years, but believe me we were immersed in it every time you turned on the TV news or picked up a newspaper. If you want to describe this individual as an anti-war protester, you will have no argument from me. However, the word hippy (or hippie, if you prefer) has a specific meaning and image to someone who lived through those times. And this individual's picture is far from it. What we see in the picture is a veteran who most likely saw combat in Vietnam. He looks to be fairly clean cut, and for all we know he may still have been on active duty. (That would explain why he still has his ID card.) I am guessing whatever oppostion he had to the war came directly from his experiences. I draw a difference between idealistic hippies, who's world view is mostly based on theory, and someone who has actually been out there. Using a term like hippie for someone like this is to simplify our view of history rather than clarify it. It was all too easy back then for those who supported the war to write off all of the protesters as the fringe of society. That was until decorated soldiers who had served honorably returned home and joined the protest. You can't imagine how shocking that was for some people. And one thing we learned from these vets was that the story that the government was telling was far from 100% true. We have the perspective today of hundreds of books with personal stories from the Vietnam War. There are very few things that about that war that would shock anybody today. But back in 1968, that is not what was being told the public. Posers amongst the ranks, extremist positions, radical actions... sure, it all happened. But you also had soldiers protesting because their best friend had died in a war they did not understand. That didn't make them all communist sympathizers. Was the VVAW allied with hippies and other counter culture groups? Of course, as much as they shared a common goal of protesting the war. But the VVAW leadership was also very intent on staying focused as a veteran's protest group. Did some of the troops come home, shed their uniform, and jump into the hippie lifestyle. Oh yes... and I knew some of them. But even then, they still stood apart from their flower power brethern because of where they had been, and what they had seen. I can agree with the comment "we owe it to the current and future generations not to present a distorted view of veterans as being noble, infallible, perfect pillars of society post-discharge." Vets are people, including the good and the bad, with political viewpoints from far left to far right. But in my mind, hippie is not a label that should be so easily placed someone who served his time in the military, especially combat veterans. It was all much more complex than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrapneldude Posted February 4, 2012 Share #46 Posted February 4, 2012 Gil, I will defer to your experience and personal first-hand knowledge of the time period. I think the difference is the general definition, and all the connotations in our minds that go along with it, of the word. To you, hippy is a concrete term and describes a very slim corner of the population at that time. To me, it means a general term and I lump in anyone who stood in opposition to the Vietnam war during that time AND took action to meet those goals. To me, a comparison can be drawn like this... Suppose a Marine were to serve multiple tours in Iraq, honorably, maybe picking up some valor awards and some scars along the way, and gets home. He has a religious epiphany and decides to join the Westboro Baptist church and protest at the funerals of his former comrades. Governments shade the truth to meet their own needs, and the warriors who are flung into the face to face end of their politicians' words are the ones who are in a better position to say what is and isn't true about the war. No argument there. Our fictitious Marine with the Westboro klan may have perfect clarity on the harsh reality of the war in Iraq, and has lived through the very worst of it, but despite that, you would be hard pressed to find anyone who would have anything nice to say about him, after his transformation. He served honorably, and we wouldn't be out of line to shake his hand or buy him a cup of coffee and say "Thanks, Marine," but he's switched sides when he steps out with the church goons holding his home-made picket signs. Calling the guy in that picture a hippy doesn't degrade his service. It doesn't even really degrade his post-war activities of associating with those types. What it does is lump him into a category of people who opposed the war in Vietnam and actively sought to discredit the US Military at that time. Which is exactly what that photograph depicts, and is as far as we can tell, the truth of the situation. **I really don't mean to be argumentative here, but the accusation that we were bashing a combat medic is far from the truth. Combat medics are amazing people and they work miracles and do a horrific job under fire.** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwb123 Posted February 4, 2012 Share #47 Posted February 4, 2012 That's quite the scenario you propose. Considering their statements about soldiers dying as part of God's hatred of the US, I'd be surprised to see any vet join the Westboro Baptist church. But in this world anything is possible, and I do get the point you are making. I am sure you are well aware we have a modern version of the VVAW, the Iraq Veterans Against the War. http://ivaw.org/ While there are those who disagree with the Iraq Veterans Against the War, they never seem to have been as vilified as the VVAW. Perhaps they were never seen to be as radical, or as far removed from the mainstream. You are correct... for someone my age, the term hippie does conjure a specific meaning. It is still not a complimentary term for many people. And that was my concern in using it in this context. And not to beat this to death, keep in mind you had anti-war protesters from all segments of society... college professors, Catholic priests, elected members of Congress to name a few. Many of these would not meet my image of a hippie, but certainly stood in opposition to the war. Believe me, things were very confused and complicated back then. It was a very strange time to grow up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kammo-man Posted February 4, 2012 Share #48 Posted February 4, 2012 Make love NOT war ............. Thats what my boys say .......... but they still love cammo . owen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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