The Jet Pilots Survival Knife

[Charlie Flick]

Left side second one down from the top.

Frank Trzaska

 

Bingo. Give that man a kewpie doll. Nice job spotting the MILPAR, Frank. And thanks for the compliment.

 

Regards,

Charlie

[gunbarrel]

Thanks, guys! :thumbsup: Keep those pictures coming!

[M1Marksman]

I only have 2 for now, both Ontario.

 

The 1976 Ontario was bought from Cheaperthandirt a few years ago. It was new/unissued & cheap! I think it was $20 or less & a very limited supply. I bought one, then my wife's grandfather wanted one, but he was too late. I don't know if it was a factory reject due to the pocket for the stone being sewn on crooked or not. Dated 10-76 & has a black painted pommel.

 

The 1969 Ontario was given to me by "The Colonel". He claims he bought it at the px with the intention of carrying it in 'Nam, but he was issued a Camillus M3 (his "ear harvester"). Anyhoo, it has a white painted pommel & is dated 1-1969.

 

Date stamps...

[sactroop]

I think that 1-1969 is the earliest for the Ontario pilots knife. Good get to have one near new. :thumbsup:

[gunbarrel]

I think that 1-1969 is the earliest for the Ontario pilots knife. Good get to have one near new. :thumbsup:

 

Ditto! :thumbsup:

[gunbarrel]

I ran across this photo in my collection and I realized I had not posted it. It's one of my favorite military photos. General George P. Seneff with a 6" JPK in a custom-made sheath. You don't see Generals nowadays carrying knives.

 

 

His last name is misspelled here.

 

[Delta Vet]

10. Camillus 6” Blade – Dog heads “theater” knife. Saw teeth removed.

 

 

I have this Dog Head knife with a 5 inch blade. Looks like everyone is relating to the discription from the Wright Book page #121. As you can see the alum covers up the makers name. This is not a Milpar grind, the one on the bottom is a Milpar and the middle one is a Camillus. I myself do not completly think Milpar had made a alum. handle for the military. I do beleive that these Dog Heads and other alum blades with the Viet Nam story is not so. I am 75 % leaning in the direction as many others have that these blades are surplus that was finished out for the sporting / hunting market.

Yes, I did buy one! It is a chase for me to find the corrrect story and perhaps I never will. I worked at the Milpar Plant for a few weeks as a temp worker back in 1965 and never got to go to the dept. that made these knives. The old Milpar plant is apx 6 miles from my house. More later on my interest of Milpar blades.

[gunbarrel]

Delta Vet said:

I myself do not completly think Milpar had made a alum. handle for the military.

 

Hi Delta Vet,

 

I never heard of anyone thinking that. What I have heard is that the factory made them with surplus blades for the commercial market at the time. Here is another style blade that you see quite often with the DHH. Mine is the one with the broken blade.

 

 

 

 

 

[Salvage Sailor]

I've posted this before on another thread.

 

 

She may not be pretty, except for pretty beat up, but she's mine. I always had my buck 110 on my belt, and used my K-Bar on ops, but I also used this camillus dated 5-67 on the boats.

 

 

[gunbarrel]

I've posted this before on another thread.

 

She may not be pretty, except for pretty beat up, but she's mine. I always had my buck 110 on my belt, and used my K-Bar on ops, but I also used this camillus dated 5-67 on the boats.

 

Thanks for posting it! :thumbsup:

[hawkdriver]

Here is my pile of JPKs

 

 

My newer knives were really feeling left out, so I thought that I would post them as well. The Jet Pilot Knives evolved into what is now known as Aircraft Survival Egress Knife. I will start with the AIRSAVE knife. These were kept inside covered pouches. Because the scabbard was sewn inside a cloth cover, there was no place for a sharpening stone. The black strap cutter was locally purchased through Aeriel and added. The pull lanyard was snapped to a snap on the vest outside the pocket for quick finding when needed. Grab it, yank and the cloth pouch would open and then pull the cutter out and it made the knife accessible.

 

 

 

 

When the Gen I Air Warrior vest came about, the first generation Aircraft Survival Egress Knife ASEK was produced in a solid OD scabbard with a black handle knife to match the original solid OD Air Warrior Gen I vest. These knives were also used with the Woodland Gen II vest, no woodland ASEK were ever produced that I am aware of. The rubber handle was supposed to protect you when cutting live wires, but no one ever believed that. The pommel is a heavy steel cap with a conical point for breaking glass. This knife was never meant to be carried on the vest, it was designed to be worn on the leg. Most people don't like the leg carry as it makes you track two pieces of equipment, your vest and knife. Most wanted the knife back on the vest. Many who were still using the AIRSAVE vest were like a pig in a poke if they could get this knife for their AIRSAVE. The set-up consist of the scabbard, leg straps, knife, and a egress strap cutter with built in blade sharpener and screw driver tip.

 

 

 

When the Air Warrior vest went to ACU, the solid green no longer cut the mustard, so a Foilage green handle knife and a ACU patterned scabbard was developed. Not much different than the previous knife except coloring. Interestingly, this knife came right out of the plastic bag and shows the black strap cutter with foilage lanyard. I put a foilage cutter from another knife next to it. This second cutter was a prototype that never made it as far as I know. The blade has titanium coating, but the perpendicular blade didn't do well, material would bind up and jam. As far as I know, they went back to the crossed scissor blades. Interesting side note. One of our units is departing for Astan this weekend. When they were issued their new Multicam Air Warrior vests, they received a Multi Cam scabbard and were told to put their Foilage handle knives into their MC sheath. Looks really ridiculous, I hope this gets changed.

 

 

 

The final knife is the Gerber ASEK, this one is in foilage, but a coyote brown version was also produced. These knives were developed by Gerber as a competitor to the Ontario Knife as many people think the Ontario feels small and fragile, they want something heavy and hefty and this knife was it. When put onto the Gen III Air Warrior vest, this knife is very big and bulky, but to each their own. The scabbard is hard plastic and the blade sharpener is built into the scabbard itself. The handle of this knife is flatter and the pommel glass cutter is a weird shape. The strap cutter reminds me of the bulky plastic Aeriel strap cutter that I had in the AIRSAVE knife. Interesting story, the Ontario knife engineer is a friend of mine. At a conference, I won a Gerber ASEK, she said she would give me a Ontario ASEK if I would trade her for the Gerber. I did, she then promptly put the knife on the floor with the handle propped against the chair and then stood up on it. Engineering testing I guess, the handle broke. She did the same with an Ontario and it withstood the same treatment.

 

 

[Charlie Flick]

Hawkdriver:

 

Thanks very much for the detailed explanation on the recent pilot knives. For the collectors among us (like me) still stuck in the 20th Century this was certainly an education.

 

Would it be possible for you to post some dates as to when these various knives were fielded? Also, as I am not very familiar with post-2000 aviation equipment it would be very helpful if you could post some pics of these blades in use with the various vests or other devices you mentioned. (Uh, teach, whutz a Gen III Air Warrior vest, or a Gen II or Gen I??).

 

I enjoyed your posts here and thank you once again for sharing your collection with us.

 

Regards,

Charlie Flick

[gunbarrel]

Hawkdriver,

 

I second Charlies' comments. Thanks for the great posts! :thumbsup:

[doyler]

Heres another I picked up recently.73 dated.Sew in scabbard.

 

 

[hawkdriver]

Hawkdriver:

 

Thanks very much for the detailed explanation on the recent pilot knives. For the collectors among us (like me) still stuck in the 20th Century this was certainly an education.

 

Would it be possible for you to post some dates as to when these various knives were fielded? Also, as I am not very familiar with post-2000 aviation equipment it would be very helpful if you could post some pics of these blades in use with the various vests or other devices you mentioned. (Uh, teach, whutz a Gen III Air Warrior vest, or a Gen II or Gen I??).

 

I enjoyed your posts here and thank you once again for sharing your collection with us.

 

Regards,

Charlie Flick

 

I will get my stuff together and try to put some of that information together. Between myself and MohawkALSE, I think we can get it fairly well established.

[DSchlagan]

GREAT THREAD GB!! :thumbsup:

 

 

...Interesting story, the Ontario knife engineer is a friend of mine. At a conference, I won a Gerber ASEK, she said she would give me a Ontario ASEK if I would trade her for the Gerber. I did, she then promptly put the knife on the floor with the handle propped against the chair and then stood up on it. Engineering testing I guess, the handle broke. She did the same with an Ontario and it withstood the same treatment.

Could the reason for this "snap-test" occurring, be the fact that the Gerber ASEKs have a "superior 'electrically insulated' blade-to-pommel", have something to do with that particular outcome?

I had wondered if this 'feature' may contribute to failure, if used as a pry-bar...

(The tang is 'segmented/separated' inside the grip.)

 

The Ontario ASEKs were known to have previously been of "catastrophic failure", regarding the lack of electrically insulated handle.

Apparently, it has been subsequently redesigned to meet this requirement.

 

Of immediate interest:

"SFC Dillard Johnson's Gerber LMF II ASEK, used to sever a 220 volt line [w/o electrical wounding] in combat in Iraq. Arrows point to damage done by the current. The electrically insulated handle may have saved SFC Johnson's life, and cutting the lines potentially saved the lives of all the members of his patrol."

 

 

Regards,

Don.

[Jack's Son]

This is my one and only Knife that I can add to the thread....

 

 

Another Pic....

 

 

Another Pic....

 

 

Another Pic....

 

[hawkdriver]

GREAT THREAD GB!! :thumbsup:

 

 

 

Could the reason for this "snap-test" occurring, be the fact that the Gerber ASEKs have a "superior 'electrically insulated' blade-to-pommel", have something to do with that particular outcome?

I had wondered if this 'feature' may contribute to failure, if used as a pry-bar...

(The tang is 'segmented/separated' inside the grip.)

 

The Ontario ASEKs were known to have previously been of "catastrophic failure", regarding the lack of electrically insulated handle.

Apparently, it has been subsequently redesigned to meet this requirement.

 

Of immediate interest:

"SFC Dillard Johnson's Gerber LMF II ASEK, used to sever a 220 volt line [w/o electrical wounding] in combat in Iraq. Arrows point to damage done by the current. The electrically insulated handle may have saved SFC Johnson's life, and cutting the lines potentially saved the lives of all the members of his patrol."

 

 

Regards,

Don.

 

Doubtful, the tang broke clear up by the pommel, so a purposely segmented blade that far up the tang wouldn't provide much positive electrical protection. I would have to question the segmented tang statement, why would you purposely engineer a weak spot and then put a break-out pommel at the other end of that tang? Also, when she stood on it, the tang snapped, so it broke. As for the "known" problem, where does that information come from, I will pass it on and see the voracity of the statement. Sometimes Soldiers make up problems that don't exist to validate not liking a specific item, you either like or dislike the Ontario ASEK, not much in the middle.

[gunbarrel]

Very nice, Ron! :thumbsup:

 

DSchlagan said:

GREAT THREAD GB!! :thumbsup:

 

Thanks, Don!

 

Jack said:

This is my one and only Knife that I can add to the thread....

 

Yes, but what a gorgeous example! :thumbsup:

[DSchlagan]

hawkdriver said:

Doubtful, the tang broke clear up by the pommel, so a purposely segmented blade that far up the tang wouldn't provide much positive electrical protection. I would have to question the segmented tang statement, why would you purposely engineer a weak spot and then put a break-out pommel at the other end of that tang? Also, when she stood on it, the tang snapped, so it broke. As for the "known" problem, where does that information come from, I will pass it on and see the voracity of the statement. Sometimes Soldiers make up problems that don't exist to validate not liking a specific item, you either like or dislike the Ontario ASEK, not much in the middle.

 

US Army CRC, FLIGHTfax Magazine July 2006:

 

 

Page 16:

 

 

Page 17:

 

Read the details surrounding SFC Dillard Johnson's use of his Gerber LMF II ASEK, in Combat:

RECENT REAL-WORLD EVASION

 

Please "Click to view full image"; (black bar on top > then left click "+" while over image.)

 

 

I did not note any Copyright information contained in this magazine, or the article, itself.

Furthermore, it is my understanding that an unclassified work of the U.S. Federal Government, inherently places it in the public domain.

I therefore wish to express my sincere thanks, to the US Army Combat Readiness Center, FLIGHTfax Magazine, and especially the article's author: Christopher Trumble, System Safety Engineer, US Army CRC; for the use of his work.

 

Regards,

Don.

[hawkdriver]

Thanks for the article, I will ask my friend what she has to say aobut it. As always, there are two sides to every story. Let me fish this one out and see what bites.

[Jack's Son]

Yes, but what a gorgeous example! :thumbsup:

Thank you, GB!

[DSchlagan]

Thanks for the article, I will ask my friend what she has to say aobut it. As always, there are two sides to every story. Let me fish this one out and see what bites.

You're welcome.

I would be very interested in her assessment.

 

They are both very good knives, though, I must admit my preference for the Gerber.

The design influence of which is very reminiscent of the "legendary" Al Mar; which should not come as any big surprise, as he was the head of knife design for Gerber from 1968 to 1979, when he left Gerber to form his own company.

He was also a 1st Special Forces Group officer, serving "prior to" 1960, in the Nam.

 

Regards,

Don.

[hawkdriver]

You're welcome.

I would be very interested in her assessment.

 

They are both very good knives, though, I must admit my preference for the Gerber.

The design influence of which is very reminiscent of the "legendary" Al Mar; which should not come as any big surprise, as he was the head of knife design for Gerber from 1968 to 1979, when he left Gerber to form his own company.

He was also a 1st Special Forces Group officer, serving "prior to" 1960, in the Nam.

 

Regards,

Don.

 

Being that my friend is the design engineer for Ontario, I am biased that direction. With that said, I will admit that I like the look of the Gerber better, but I have also tried wearing the Gerber ASEK on my flight vest and found it so large and bulky mounted there, I took it back off and put the Ontario knife back on. That hard scabbard is just to much, maybe I should see if I can find a smaller scabbard.

[1SG_1st_Cav]

Hey guys: I just want to throw this out regarding JPK/JPSKs. I've been looking for a replacement sharpening stone for one of my JPKs. The prices on eBay range from $9.99 to $12.99 plus shipping. I happen to be in Sears today looking at tools. I glanced around and spotted a couple of different sharpening stones. And one of the looked about the right size for my JPK that was missing one. There were two on display and I bought both of them. They measure

3" X 7/8" X 1.5", and they fit perfectly in a JPK sheath. BTW, the Sears SKU # is 96441. And the really nice part is they only cost $2.99 @. :w00t: Sometimes the bear eats you! And sometimes you eat the bear! ~ Danny