Mil Equip Del Team Cambodia & USMC 1st Div Vietnam

[NorBn]

These are both on a Norwegian online auction right now, any chance they are originals?

[itshistory]

They look like reproductions, poor ones at that. Original period insignia look markedly different. The one is made with a computer guided stitching and the other is very coarse hand embroidery. They also look at artificially "dirtied" by some sort of stain.

 

IH

[NorBn]

Just what I suspect, but the seller has a strange mix of original and repro patches, so I just want to be 100% sure. Too bad if I found out they were originals after the auctions ended.

[Steverino]

Just what I suspect, but the seller has a strange mix of original and repro patches, so I just want to be 100% sure. Too bad if I found out they were originals after the auctions ended.

NorBn,

 

To further underscore the opinion that the second patch is a repro, one of my best friends was in the Military Equipment Delivery Team and showed me one of the original patches. It has zero resemblance to the construction method shown in the patch currently up for auction.

 

Patch Johnson

[all-bull]

Both patches are definitely fake. I can show some real MEDTCs if you are interested.

[NorBn]

Both patches are definitely fake. I can show some real MEDTCs if you are interested.

 

Please do, always nice to know what a good one looks like if something like this will appear in this part of the world.

[all-bull]

Here you go.

Thai machine made (I assume, tho could be Khmer made, but very few of their unit patches are made like this) and a real Vietnamese hand embroidered.

[all-bull]

backs

[all-bull]

Other versions to look for. These are a mix of Vietnamese made, Khmer made, and Thai made. Thanks!

[NorBn]

Great patches, thanks for showing

[J_Andrews]

Re Post #9: The center one in the top row is the design I conjured up in Spring 1971, at the behest of an Army Ordnance CPT and Sig MAJ (his boss). They had been seconded out of MACV HQ in Saigon and were then "commuting" to Phnom Penh, accompanying shipments of gear, via air and road. It appears to be a GOOD one, i.e. from the Saigon-made run(s). Its blue is CERULEAN (light, bright) and it is on a hanger (the only way any patches I saw were generated/worn). The first run consisted of 10 and I believe the CPT re-ordered at least 10 more, after I left.

 

The other designs were later. The red/blue one was supposedly created/imposed by a COL who "commanded" MEDTC and the light blue one was USAF people and came (with them) out of Thailand.

[all-bull]

Re Post #9: The center one in the top row is the design I conjured up in Spring 1971, at the behest of an Army Ordnance CPT and Sig MAJ (his boss). They had been seconded out of MACV HQ in Saigon and were then "commuting" to Phnom Penh, accompanying shipments of gear, via air and road. It appears to be a GOOD one, i.e. from the Saigon-made run(s). Its blue is CERULEAN (light, bright) and it is on a hanger (the only way any patches I saw were generated/worn). The first run consisted of 10 and I believe the CPT re-ordered at least 10 more, after I left.

 

The other designs were later. The red/blue one was supposedly created/imposed by a COL who "commanded" MEDTC and the light blue one was USAF people and came (with them) out of Thailand.

 

 

Great info, I'm gonna make a note of all that to put with our patches. Here is the back of the pocket hanger.

[gwb123]

MEDTC patches seem to come up on here every now and then.

 

The Air Force design in particular was discussed as to whether it was actually worn by the equipment team or not.

 

At this years ASMIC show, I was lucky enough to spend some time with one of Tom Clinton's old catalogs.

 

I believe he was getting these from Thailand. The shield on the left side of post 7 is probably a match for the one shown here, as is the USAF one in post 9.

 

These show up a lot and are sold as period made. But you can read Tom's notes in his catalog.

 

Add to that, I've never found evidence that the USAF design was ever worn. Every copy I have seen has been pristine and unsewn. I suspect it may have been designed by the legendary Harry McAllister. Harry was a USAF Master Sergeant and a long time ASMIC collector. He was a great guy and I wish he was still around. Unfortunately he had a habit of "creating" patches that were never sanctioned or ordered by the represented unit. Another one of his famous patches is a combination 7th AF/ 13th AF.

 

I think I now have a complete set of the Tom Clinton MEDTC patches, and they all feature the same weave and bright thread. They look great, but relying on Tom's notes, they are probably postwar.

[gwb123]

Re Post #9: The center one in the top row is the design I conjured up in Spring 1971, at the behest of an Army Ordnance CPT and Sig MAJ (his boss). They had been seconded out of MACV HQ in Saigon and were then "commuting" to Phnom Penh, accompanying shipments of gear, via air and road. It appears to be a GOOD one, i.e. from the Saigon-made run(s). Its blue is CERULEAN (light, bright) and it is on a hanger (the only way any patches I saw were generated/worn). The first run consisted of 10 and I believe the CPT re-ordered at least 10 more, after I left.

 

The other designs were later. The red/blue one was supposedly created/imposed by a COL who "commanded" MEDTC and the light blue one was USAF people and came (with them) out of Thailand.

 

That solves a mystery as this design never seemed to fit with the ones worn in country.

 

This is a design that gets copied often.

 

This would be good material for the ASMIC Trading Post.

 

Thanks for sharing!

[J_Andrews]

The center one WAS worn in Cambodia. The CPT and MAJ were temporarily split between PP and Saigon. They had other team members living full-time in PP. IIRC the MAJ was due to DEROS, in May or June, and the CPT would relocate to PP about the same time. The MEDTC patches were all put on hangers because their highers at HQ MACV insisted they continue to wear the MACV SSI. They also had Cambodian patches on hangers, IIRC one for Logistics (red disc with yellow floral thingie) and one for GHQ (white sunburst on light blue disc with a yellow temple (?) and/or crossed wings, swords), switched around as appropriate for the day/situation. The former was silk-screened, made in PP, the GHQ was "bevo" (jacquard) made in Saigon. And MP-style armbands, white lettering on black, that said "MEDTC" and whatever the equivalent was in Cambodian script; when accompanying road convoys, they "went heavy" with flak jackets, helmets, etc. and the CPT had an M-14E2 as weapon of choice.

[gwb123]

Rather than saying "this design never seemed to fit with the ones worn in country." I probably should have said T"this design never seemed to match the other designs made for MEDTC."

[Steverino]

Rather than saying "this design never seemed to fit with the ones worn in country." I probably should have said T"this design never seemed to match the other designs made for MEDTC."

I wanted to add a photo and a story about how a friend of mine got his MEDTC patch. He was an officer in the outfit. Here is his quote about how he came to get the patch in the attached photo.

 

"One Sunday several other officers and I went to the NCO quarters for a social get together! One of the NCOs had just come back from Saigon and he had a large sheet of the patches he got from a embroidery shop there, and was selling them. I like a dummy bought only one! Think it was 25 cents! At that price I should have bought half of the sheet or at least found out the shop's address."

 

This is not to say that any of the other patches shown in this thread are fakes or repros (except the first ones which have been discussed already). However, it will document at least one original style of patch that came from the "factory" in sheets of red and blue felt being sewn together and then embroidered. A very unusual style for Vietnamese patches.

 

Patch Johnson

[J_Andrews]

Inspired by the mention patches from a "NCO social event", I will make a slight addition to my story of the other MEDTC patch:

 

I met the Ordnance CPT and his boss the Sig MAJ at a hail-and-farewell "social event" hosted by the 170th Ord Det (EOD) on Duong Pasteur in Saigon. They were just in off the road from Phnom Penh and had to duck upstairs to shower, shave and change uniforms; the CPT's gear and M-14E2 were in my care (silly fool!). When he reappeared he wanted to know why an MI guy was holding his rifle.. Naturally, as at any "social event", the subject of a pocket patch came up.

 

My first sketch was literally on a cocktail napkin (from the Tan Son Nhut officers' club).

[River Patrol]

The MEDT pocket hanger (shown above) was the first military insignia I purchased for my collection directly from a dealer...I believe I got it from Bob Chatt at SOS for $30. At the time I thought I overpaid for it, but I've only seen 2 others since that time.

[Joe Black]

This is my MEDTC. All felt, with white felt back. Anyone with advice about where made, please reply. Thanks.

[gwb123]

This is my MEDTC. All felt, with white felt back. Anyone with advice about where made, please reply. Thanks.

 

I always thought these might be a Korean made reproduction. Felt is commonly used in Korea.

[Joe Black]

Thanks Gil. Felt may have been a popular material in Korea, but when I was there, there was alot of twill stuff.

Here's the reverse. It just deoen't smell like Korean made to me. 4

[gwb123]

Thanks Gil. Felt may have been a popular material in Korea, but when I was there, there was alot of twill stuff.

Here's the reverse. It just deoen't smell like Korean made to me. 4

 

No argument on the twill material being used in Korea.

 

But there are only a few countries that use felt on a regular basis. It was used to a limited extent in Vietnam, but you rarely see it from Thailand or the Philippines.

 

This white backing material is also common to Korea, as is the flat edge and the sewing that you see here. This could also have been made in Pakistan.

 

Either way, I do not believe it was made during the wartime period.

[Patchcollector]

MEDTC patches seem to come up on here every now and then.

 

The Air Force design in particular was discussed as to whether it was period made or not.

 

At this years ASMIC show, I was lucky enough to spend some time with one of Tom Clinton's old catalogs.

 

I believe he was getting these from Thailand. The shield on the left side of post 7 is probably a match for the one shown here, as is the USAF one in post 9.

 

These show up a lot and are sold as period made. But you can read Tom's notes in his catalog.

 

Add to that, I've never found evidence that the USAF design was ever worn. Every copy I have seen has been pristine and unsewn. I suspect it may have been designed by the legendary Harry McAllister. Harry was a USAF Master Sergeant and a long time ASMIC collector. He was a great guy and I wish he was still around. Unfortunately he had a habit of "creating" patches that were never sanctioned or ordered by the represented unit. Another one of his famous patches is a combination 7th AF/ 13th AF.

 

I think I now have a complete set of the Tom Clinton MEDTC patches, and they all feature the same weave and bright thread. They look great, but relying on Tom's notes, they are probably postwar.

 

 

From what I'm reading on the page shown the MEDTC reproductions should be marked with an "R" on the back.

I have a Khmer Republic MEDTC patch that does not have an "R" on back.It also has the price tag still on it that appears to be in some Asian currency.

 

And just wanted to add,the 7/13 was a shared command during the Vietnam War,and there are patches for the unit(s)

 

The sources for these patch images are VSPA.com and www.westin553.net

[77th Inf. Div.]

 

As I obtained this group of MEDT and Cambodian patches I was researching them and found this excellent thread.  I was surprised to see the above story of a sheet of MEDT patches exactly as the partial sheet I just obtained as described by Steve Johnson above.  Patch group probably came from someone in MEDT, but unfortunately no name or other items then those shown below.