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P-39 or P-400 ? How are they different?

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I want to get a model of what I would call a P-39. I would like it to be an early war plane opperating from Guadalcanal. What model of P-39 would that be? Did P-400s fly early in the war? I am a bit confused as they all look the same to me. I know this is the right place to seek help.

Steve


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Always looking for anything related to the 8th AAF and flight gear of W.W.2.

Also any info on Advisory Team 98 the unit my late father served in.

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I want to get a model of what I would call a P-39. I would like it to be an early war plane opperating from Guadalcanal. What model of P-39 would that be? Did P-400s fly early in the war? I am a bit confused as they all look the same to me. I know this is the right place to seek help.

Steve

 

Steve,

 

P-39Ds and P-400s are virtually indistinguishable, unless you really know what you're looking for. The P-400 was the export version of the P-39 and was used early-on in the war in the PTO by the 8th and the 35th Fighter Groups. They were quickly phased out in favor of later P-39s or other types of airplanes. One of my pilots, BJ Oliver, flew P-400 BX144 on his Zero-killing mission on 16 June 1942. The 67th Fighter Squadron operated from Guadalcanal and I know they were flying both P-400s and P-39s early on. It really comes down to which specific airplane you want to build, get some good references for it and there are a number of aftermarket decal sheets out there for Guadalcanal birds.

 

There are a few P-39 models out there in 48th scale (the only scale I build in) and although the Revell/Monogram and Eduard kits are good, the Hasegawa kit is far superior. I've got one building right now and it has been a breeze to build.

 

Hope that helps!

 

Jon


In memory of 1LT Julius C. Goldman, XO of F/330th, 83rd Infantry Division 1944-45.

Come see what's new at the US Army Air Defense Artillery Museum on Facebook: US Army ADA Museum


Looking for P-47 and Tactical Reconnaissance Unit photographs and any items associated with WWII Jewish fighter pilots.

Also seeking photos, documents and associated materials from the 3rd Armored Division and 83rd Infantry Division in January 1945.

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Thanks Jon, I knew you would have the answer. I saw your P-400 build in the modeling section. Great as always.

Steve


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donation2013.gifdonation2014.gifdonation2015.gifdonation2016.gif

 

 

Always looking for anything related to the 8th AAF and flight gear of W.W.2.

Also any info on Advisory Team 98 the unit my late father served in.

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Thanks Jon, I knew you would have the answer. I saw your P-400 build in the modeling section. Great as always.

Steve

 

Thanks man! I've gotta pick up some Dark Earth paint so I can finish the camouflage on it. The P-39's definitely an interesting bird. It's unfortunate that the AAF decided to neuter it by removing the supercharger. Apparently the prototype really was an incredibly well performing airplane. Here's one of my favorite Airacobra ditties:

 

Lord don't give me a P-39

With an engine that's mounted behind

It will tumble and roll

And dig a big hole

Lord don't give me a P-39.


In memory of 1LT Julius C. Goldman, XO of F/330th, 83rd Infantry Division 1944-45.

Come see what's new at the US Army Air Defense Artillery Museum on Facebook: US Army ADA Museum


Looking for P-47 and Tactical Reconnaissance Unit photographs and any items associated with WWII Jewish fighter pilots.

Also seeking photos, documents and associated materials from the 3rd Armored Division and 83rd Infantry Division in January 1945.

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A few 400s made it to the MTO with the 350th FG as well.

 

I'd suggest reading "Nanette" by Edwards Park. The best fighter pilot book out there in my opinion, and he was in love with his 39 :)


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A few 400s made it to the MTO with the 350th FG as well.

 

I'd suggest reading "Nanette" by Edwards Park. The best fighter pilot book out there in my opinion, and he was in love with his 39 :)

 

Yeager actually loved his P-39 too. I didn't realize that the 350th flew P-400s though. I thought they flew F models and later. Fantastic!


In memory of 1LT Julius C. Goldman, XO of F/330th, 83rd Infantry Division 1944-45.

Come see what's new at the US Army Air Defense Artillery Museum on Facebook: US Army ADA Museum


Looking for P-47 and Tactical Reconnaissance Unit photographs and any items associated with WWII Jewish fighter pilots.

Also seeking photos, documents and associated materials from the 3rd Armored Division and 83rd Infantry Division in January 1945.

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Really easy to ID

 

One is a Airacobra

One is a P-40 with a Zero close behind ;)

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Really easy to ID

 

One is a Airacobra

One is a P-40 with a Zero close behind ;)

 

:thumbsup:

 

Very nice. LOL


In memory of 1LT Julius C. Goldman, XO of F/330th, 83rd Infantry Division 1944-45.

Come see what's new at the US Army Air Defense Artillery Museum on Facebook: US Army ADA Museum


Looking for P-47 and Tactical Reconnaissance Unit photographs and any items associated with WWII Jewish fighter pilots.

Also seeking photos, documents and associated materials from the 3rd Armored Division and 83rd Infantry Division in January 1945.

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Here's a link to one of our CAF Wings that operate the only flying P-39. Just click the photo to get the infor.

 

http://www.centexwing.com/

 

I talked to one of the members there and he told me after the heavy armament was removed from the nose, the CG changed so much the nose went up in the air. They fixed the situation by installing the battery near the nose ans also some lead weights. The one big thing they talked about was straddling the 60 year old drive shaft that's spinning at such high rev's right between their legs.


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Yeager actually loved his P-39 too. I didn't realize that the 350th flew P-400s though. I thought they flew F models and later. Fantastic!

 

 

I trust you've visited the 350th FG Blog

 

http://web.me.com/vizcarraguitars/350th_Fi...th_FG_Blog.html

 

The son of one of the pilots has collected all kinds of photos and info.

 

Interesting you mention Yeager and the 39. I was with an old friend who flew 39s and Jugs with the 345th FS, 350th FG and it was at a gathering where Bud Anderson spoke. Bud had absolutely no idea that guys had flown 39s against the Luftwaffe and was amazed to meet someone who had actually done it!


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I trust you've visited the 350th FG Blog

 

http://web.me.com/vizcarraguitars/350th_Fi...th_FG_Blog.html

 

The son of one of the pilots has collected all kinds of photos and info.

 

Interesting you mention Yeager and the 39. I was with an old friend who flew 39s and Jugs with the 345th FS, 350th FG and it was at a gathering where Bud Anderson spoke. Bud had absolutely no idea that guys had flown 39s against the Luftwaffe and was amazed to meet someone who had actually done it!

 

I was in very close contact with Keith and the guys from the 350th site while working on my latest book, although I didn't look at the P-39 period at all. Was strictly focused on Sept 44 onwards.

 

Jon


In memory of 1LT Julius C. Goldman, XO of F/330th, 83rd Infantry Division 1944-45.

Come see what's new at the US Army Air Defense Artillery Museum on Facebook: US Army ADA Museum


Looking for P-47 and Tactical Reconnaissance Unit photographs and any items associated with WWII Jewish fighter pilots.

Also seeking photos, documents and associated materials from the 3rd Armored Division and 83rd Infantry Division in January 1945.

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Tell me more about this book? :)

 

12th AF Jugs? Gotta love those Devilhawks!

 

It's some info from Hugh Dow that mentions the P400s by the way, speaking of 350th pilots.


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Tell me more about this book? :)

 

12th AF Jugs? Gotta love those Devilhawks!

 

It's some info from Hugh Dow that mentions the P400s by the way, speaking of 350th pilots.

 

Osprey's latest in the Combat Aircraft series: P-47 Thunderbolt Units of the Twelfth Air Force. It's out in about 2 weeks. Col. Dow helped out a bunch with the 350th sections. He had a lot of good advice.


In memory of 1LT Julius C. Goldman, XO of F/330th, 83rd Infantry Division 1944-45.

Come see what's new at the US Army Air Defense Artillery Museum on Facebook: US Army ADA Museum


Looking for P-47 and Tactical Reconnaissance Unit photographs and any items associated with WWII Jewish fighter pilots.

Also seeking photos, documents and associated materials from the 3rd Armored Division and 83rd Infantry Division in January 1945.

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Looking forward to it. My friend is Earl Miller who won a DFC and Silver Star in Jugs with the 345th, after flying 39s for a long time. His stories of flying ground attack were something else.


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Thanks for all of the links and great stories. I have learned quite a bit about how much the P-39 was used. I had no idea. That is one reason this forum is so great!

Steve


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donation2013.gifdonation2014.gifdonation2015.gifdonation2016.gif

 

 

Always looking for anything related to the 8th AAF and flight gear of W.W.2.

Also any info on Advisory Team 98 the unit my late father served in.

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There's a few differences between a P-400 and a P-39D

 

P-400 20mm Cannon, P-39D 37mm gun, though P-39F reverted to 20MM, as did P-39-D1 onwards

P-400 12 Exhaust stacks, P-39D 6 stacks, then P-39D-1 reverted to 12 Stacks. Both engines could be swapped out so some had a mixture of stacks later on 1942. Export Model of V1710 was Model "E4"

P-400's had strut re-inforcement on top canopy panel as opposed to clear view panel on top canopy of P-39D/Fs

 

Initially P-400 in RAF Camo and USAAF P-39D/Fs in O/D, though post overhaul, differed even less

 

Unknown truth is that the P-39D-1s were initally ordered as RAF P-400 "Mk1As" Lend lease Versions, but were never marked or accepted before being built

 

Initially 8th FG flew P-39Ds and Fs, whereas the 31st FG (3 Squadrons only arrived in Oz, no HQ Squadron), Later re-numbered the 35thFG (April 1942) flew only P-400s initially. Following losses post July 42, and the arrival of P-39D-1s from August 1942, they blended all types and withdrew the P-39D "37mm" gun version from the 8th FG and operations

 

Some P-400s ex SUMAC (5thAAF) were sent over to Poppy(13thAAF) after overhaul as reinforcements and attrition replacements post October-November 42 ( IE BW151, BW154,BW156,BW157,BW158,BW159,BW160,BW162,BW165,BW167, BX150,BX151,BX152,BX154, BX156, BX157,BX158,BX159,BX160,BX161 and BX162) after extenstive use in PNG!

 

 

Back to SWPAC service, P-400 survivors flew into mid 1943 on active service. IE 41st FS (35th FG) 2nd Lt Roy A Owen claimed a Japanese Bomber 12/04/43 whilst flying P-400 BW128. The unit was flying P-39D-1s, P-400s and P-39Qs (20mm Cannons)

 

 

As late as 11/07/43, four 35th FS P-400s (AP347(Capt Robert Smith), BW164 (1st Lt Zielinski),BW150 (2nd Lt Chramm)and BW101(1st Lt Joe McLaughlin (I think ex 67th or 12thFS)) each claimed a Fighter Kill.

 

As for USAAF African P-400's all were re-acquired ex RAF P-400s that were being earmarked for forwarding on to USSR ex UK. A few P-400s never left the US of A as well

 

Its an interesting research subject, at least to me :w00t:

 

 

Attached is McGee's P-400 per 35thFG

Best

Gordy

 

ADF-Serials.com.au

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Gordy,

 

Thanks very much for that! I'm particularly interested in P-400 BX144, which Lt. BJ Oliver scored his zero kill in. The early part of Oliver's story is documented pretty well in Bill Bartsch's "Every Day a Nightmare", and he (along with several of the Java pilots) went on to fly P-400s with the 35th FG. I've got Oliver's uniform and I'm currently building a P-400 model to display with it. You wouldn't happen to have a photo of it by any chance, would you?

 

Welcome to the forum!

 

Jon


In memory of 1LT Julius C. Goldman, XO of F/330th, 83rd Infantry Division 1944-45.

Come see what's new at the US Army Air Defense Artillery Museum on Facebook: US Army ADA Museum


Looking for P-47 and Tactical Reconnaissance Unit photographs and any items associated with WWII Jewish fighter pilots.

Also seeking photos, documents and associated materials from the 3rd Armored Division and 83rd Infantry Division in January 1945.

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Nice stuff Gordy. You don't happen to have a photo of Edwards Park's 74 do you? That's my holy grail P39 shot. Love the photo of 75 as that might be the bird Park got shot up in during the big raid on Morseby where the 41st lost 4 39s.


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I am just now working on a P-400 and noticed this thread.  I've been digging around to try and find the British serial numbers and the squadron aircraft numbers (e.g. BW167 #6), and names, for those planes that were flying in the 67th Fighter Squadron at Guadalcanal on 14 Sept 1942 or at least identify those which were at Guadalcanal and their ultimate disposition (date of loss or condemnation).   Even just a list of serial numbers BWxxxx and the date of condemnation may be sufficient.

Also trying to figure out which were the nine planes with the shark mouth.  I have identified six with shark mouths from photos: BW146 #20 "Whistlin' Britches", #22 (possible BW155), BW156 #12 "Fancy Nancy", BW166 #17 "Impatient Virgin", and BW167 #6 no name known, and a #32 (no other info known).  And I'm even trying to determine spinner colors; white ones are obvious on BW156, BW166, and BW167, but definitely a darker color on BW146 and #22 (the possible BW155).  One reference said they had white, red and blue spinners for different flights.  Another said the spinners were white or olive drab, but I have one B&W photo that shows #32 with a spinner color which seems to match the red gums of the shark mouth.

I found a photo of part of a wreck found on Guadalcanal attributed to BW157 which still has the red center dot in the insignia.  As noted from the Ferguson "Island of Fire" book, 67th apparently were not aware of the policy to delete the red dot until Oct. 1942, and who knows when they implemented it.  I also noted that "Fancy Nancy" BW156 #12 was wrecked on the ground by Japanese strafing 11 Sept. 1942.

Thank you for any assistance!

Doug

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