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Original AAA School Patch


mortaydc60
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My last post seemed to create some interest on the Russian Shuttle patch and I believe this would do the same. The patch in question is the AAA School with the magic lamp. When ever I am at a show this question always seems to come up and you get various opinions such as" it is a fantasy patch", or "yeah it did exist but very rare" and all inbetween. It is now on ebay as item #250967779189. The seller is a longtime ASMIC member with an excellent reputation who says it is the first real one he has seen in 40 years. Oh,by the way he also is selling an Alamo Scout still in original wrapping. I have bought from him over the years and never had anything bad. So,what do you think? Mort

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Mort, for what its worth I have never seen a real one, but I do like the looks of this offered patch. I have seen reproductions (new and old). This is the first one that has the look of an older patch.

 

Has anyone ever seen a picture of one of these being worn? I have never seen any.

 

P.S. This seller has some nice offerings.

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Like Mort, I’d also be curious to know the “real” deal on this patch. Since it’s been pictured in most of the popular patch reference books over the last few decades, everybody has it on their want list (me included). The materials look like they could be early 40’s era, but I have no frame of reference for what an original should look like. And to be honest, this one looks a bit “scary” to me. Have any been found in a vet’s effects or on a uniform with provenance?

 

It’s my understanding that some early ASMIC members had examples of rare DUI’s and patches reproduced back in the 50’s to fill holes in collections. If that’s the case, could this patch be one of these? And if so, the ‘ol “every original example I’ve ever seen looked like this” or “I’ve had this for 30 years” wouldn’t really mean anything.

 

If I saw this patch at a militaria show priced at $200, I wouldn’t know whether or not to buy it (assuming I wasn’t going apply the “Greater Fool Theory” and to throw it up on Ebay.) $200 would be a bargain for an original, but not so much for a repro.

 

Kurt

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Garth Thompson

The Stein book states as follows:

 

Antiaircraft Artillery School

worn from 31 March 1942 to October 1944

Approved for local wear only by school faculty members

 

Plate 60 page 323

 

Garth

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In thirty two years of buying patch collections and rare patchs I have never seen a real one.I have never seen an example that was one hundred percent believable in anyones collection.With all the patch scholars out there you would think one of them would have written an article with photos of a real one that came from a vet.Just my opinion on the piece but the Alamo is a killer piece and will go for big money.

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In thirty two years of buying patch collections and rare patchs I have never seen a real one.I have never seen an example that was one hundred percent believable in anyones collection.With all the patch scholars out there you would think one of them would have written an article with photos of a real one that came from a vet.Just my opinion on the piece but the Alamo is a killer piece and will go for big money.

Along the lines of Scotty's theory, you'd think one from a "non collector/dealer" source listed something like "old American Automobile Association patch" would have appeared on Ebay in the last ten years. There aren't too many patches I can think of that haven't been listed on Ebay by non-collectors who just found some stuff in a drawer or at a yard sale.

Kurt

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In thirty two years of buying patch collections and rare patchs I have never seen a real one.I have never seen an example that was one hundred percent believable in anyones collection.With all the patch scholars out there you would think one of them would have written an article with photos of a real one that came from a vet.Just my opinion on the piece but the Alamo is a killer piece and will go for big money.

 

 

Bill,if I understand what you are saying or implying is that the insignia must be a fantasy patch. Through the years I have had that there were atleast a couple that were real in collections but that everyone is soo afraid because of the good repros made. Hypothetically looking at the scans and saying the threads were correct would you take a chance? Just asking to see thought process involved in making descion. If as many think it is a fantasy, it is easy;but if what Garth found is accurate? Mort

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Being a school there should be a ton of pictures of instructors in their year books wearing the insignia none have ever turned up that I know of.No one has ever seen this insignia being worn which is an automatic a red flag.I think the patch is a fantasy item thats my thought for what they are worth.Scotty

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Being a school there should be a ton of pictures of instructors in their year books wearing the insignia none have ever turned up that I know of.No one has ever seen this insignia being worn which is an automatic a red flag.I think the patch is a fantasy item thats my thought for what they are worth.Scotty

 

 

Scotty,thanks for a straight forward answer to a question that has bothered not only me but many other collecters for many years. Thanks for taking the time to answer. Morty

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Scotty,thanks for a straight forward answer to a question that has bothered not only me but many other collecters for many years. Thanks for taking the time to answer. Morty

Whatever the true designation for this patch - even if it is the Automobile Assn - this is the one that brings big bucks, is hard to find and is not the version that has been reproed.

 

I have always placed this patch in the same category as the "Early Alaska State Guard" patch - the orange disc with the polar bear and Big Dipper. Possibly/probably not what most collectors think they are, but they have both been copied because the "original" patches are so hard to find.

 

So, if you need this patch, the one Ray is selling on eBay is the "original" version of whatever the patch is!

 

patch Johnson

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  • 4 weeks later...
The Stein book states as follows:

 

Antiaircraft Artillery School

worn from 31 March 1942 to October 1944

Approved for local wear only by school faculty members

 

Plate 60 page 323

 

Garth

Garth,

 

That one caught my attention (http://www.ebay.com/itm/250967779189?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%3A80%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_from%3DR40%26_trksid%3Dm570.l2736%26_nkw%3D250967779189%26_fvi%3D1&_rdc=1#ht_500wt_1065) as well. My first impression was it looks good. I have only seen the ones published in patch books and catalogs and to me what has been shown was I thought either a copy, replica, or as has been noted here, a fantasy patch. I've seen it in black on white as a photograph in the early catalogs and later in Stein, et. al in color.

 

I draw a difference between a "copy" and a "replica". A copy to me is anything that someone came up with, often poorly made, just to fill a hole in a collection. I put a "replica" in a higher class, an imitation of the likeness and materials and techniques used to make it. A "replica" I think looks more realistic compared to the original. A "remake" to me fits any production from the original pattern, whether it is an embroidery punching (Jacquard tape) or a die set made for DUIs. A "remake" could be a subsequent order for example. I believe a prominent ASMIC DUI collector from Texas, years ago contacted makers to find their old dies and he ordered new DUIs to be made that looked very much like their period originals. Another person in Hawaii also had pieces made for collectors, but I don't know if those were made from the original dies. ASMIC has a category for pieces made from drawings, photographs or actual samples, as "remakes". Some units were authorized to procure DUIs by Heraldry but the unit was inactivated or disbanded so they were never made or worn by members of the unit. But, their DUI may be available to collectors.

 

Looking at this patch in particular you could surmise it to be for the AAA, automobile club but it has an OD thread border which tends to support it being a military insignia.

 

It appears to be old style in that it is not fully embroidered to save costs and is done on twill with the typical crinoline backing. The lamp of knowledge is used in military designs to denote schools or instruction, and this is consistent with Heraldry. I have seen a couple of DUIs for the Army, later Defense Information School. Edgar Goodman had a printer's plate made of SSI for this unit back in the early 1950s (about 1955) for Military Service Publishing Company's Officer's Guide. The patch design features the shield only of the DUI, not the crest, or the motto scroll. The patch and DUI were very real and I believe were used by the school.

 

OK, I'm going to say I think the patch is a good one, based more on gut feeling more than anything else. And, there were 20 bids on it at eBay driving the price up to a unbelievable $823.99. Some folks thought it was real enough and would go the pain of paying for it.

 

For me, I'd pass. I have better use of $823.99.

 

Tom

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  • 5 months later...
infinitig35
My last post seemed to create some interest on the Russian Shuttle patch and I believe this would do the same. The patch in question is the AAA School with the magic lamp. When ever I am at a show this question always seems to come up and you get various opinions such as" it is a fantasy patch", or "yeah it did exist but very rare" and all inbetween. It is now on ebay as item #250967779189. The seller is a longtime ASMIC member with an excellent reputation who says it is the first real one he has seen in 40 years. Oh,by the way he also is selling an Alamo Scout still in original wrapping. I have bought from him over the years and never had anything bad. So,what do you think? Mort

Mort,

 

A nice patch but I think it was a little heavy at $823.

 

It looks good to me.

 

 

post-9136-1342923211.jpg

 

post-9136-1342923266.jpg

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