To the Limit of Endurance: A Battalion of Marines in the Great War

[BEAST]

With the discussion of books on Marines in WWI, I was wondering if anyone had read this work? The author (Peter Owen) describes the book as "The book is a critical analysis of the 2d Battalion, 6th Marines' performance in combat, looking at factors like doctrine, training, recruiting, leadership, weapons, replacements, etc. I think I did a good job of keeping it from being a dry academic work by weaving a large number of veterans' accounts into the story.

 

Since by many yardsticks this battalion came as close to an ideal organization as any, and because it saw as much brutal and varied fighting as any, 2/6 provides a case study on the readiness and resilience of AEF infantry battalions in the First World War. For USMC WWI buffs, I promise there is a lot of detail you have not seen before. "

[jeremiahcable]

It's next in my line up to read. I think bobgee might be reading it currently.

[bobgee]

It's next in my line up to read. I think bobgee might be reading it currently.

 

Just ordered it on the Internet last week. Can't wait!!!

S/F....Bobgee

[bobgee]

Just ordered it on the Internet last week. Can't wait!!!

S/F....Bobgee

 

In the meantime I'm trying to determine what the author means by the title "To The Limit of Endurance". Does he suggest that there is a hypothese to determine what that is? Do Marines have a different "Limit of Endurance" than their counterparts??? Can it be tallied by dividing the size of the enemy force into the size of a Battalion of Marines so that a "Limit of Endurance" can be determined and battlefield decisions zealously made???? Maybe the basic ammo load of a Marine rifleman at Belleau Wood extrapolated into the number of defenders in the woods has been determined to be disproportinate to the numeber of Huns killed? Ergo, the "Limit of Endurance". Why also has he chosen this Battalion? There were many Battlions of infantry engaged including units of the U.S. 7th Regiment. Does the author suggest that only the 2nd Battalion, 6th Marines was there???????? What is going on???????I'm losing my mind!!!!!

 

OMG............I've fallen and I can't get up!!!!!! Where is my soapbox????????

SEMPER FI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Bobgee

[devildog34]

I have read this book, it is excellent. I think by looking at one particular unit, it allows the novice military history enthuseist to follow the situation as it played out rather than look at numerous moving parts. I am not trying suggest any of you are just novices, but honestly 99% of the reading audience does not approach the study of this topic like those of you all who are likely reading this. What I like about this work is that Owen focuses on this "sand table" approach as well as the human side. There is so much info out there about Belleau Wood that I think would really translate an even more moving human story than the works that have been published over the years, and there have been some fantastic works out there. I had the honor of visiting with Capt. Robert Asprey who is perhaps the first author, non participant to examine the battle of Belleau Wood and the Marines in WWI in general from a scholarly perspective. Mr. Asprey, a veteran of Iwo Jima and in his late 80's had the chance to interview some of the battle's biggest participants such as Lem Shephard, Frank Evans to name a few. I am currently finishing my masters thesis that I am expanding into a bigger work, I'd love to hear from anyone out there interested. I have some great resources including the silver star citations of about 80-90% of the brigade from Belleau Wood. I have interviewed numerous relatives who have shared things with me, I also had the honor of sitting down with Mr. William Eugene Lee who many of you might remember a few years back was, from what we can discern, the last living Marine to have fought at Belleau Wood or anywhere in France. Gene was 104 when I interviewed him in 2004 and he turned 105 a week later and sadly died the next day. I cannot describe the tremendous opportunity I had to sit down with a man who was so humble about an event that we all are absolutely besided ourselves about when it comes to collecting. It was fascinating to see the perspective of someone who was there since all we really know is a perspective taken from the iconic and folklore-driven vantage point. I hope that I can do this work justice, I feel well armed with resources. Love to hear from you all, this is my first posting.

-Semper Fi, Frmr. Sgt. K. Seldon

P.S. the attached photo is of Mr. Lee at age 104 and myself during one of my visits. He was with the 51st company and recalled stories to me about Lt. Col. Wise as well as Capt. Lloyd Williams at Belleau Wood

[bobgee]

In the meantime I'm trying to determine what the author means by the title "To The Limit of Endurance". Does he suggest that there is a hypothese to determine what that is? Do Marines have a different "Limit of Endurance" than their counterparts??? Can it be tallied by dividing the size of the enemy force into the size of a Battalion of Marines so that a "Limit of Endurance" can be determined and battlefield decisions zealously made???? Maybe the basic ammo load of a Marine rifleman at Belleau Wood extrapolated into the number of defenders in the woods has been determined to be disproportinate to the numeber of Huns killed? Ergo, the "Limit of Endurance". Why also has he chosen this Battalion? There were many Battlions of infantry engaged including units of the U.S. 7th Regiment. Does the author suggest that only the 2nd Battalion, 6th Marines was there???????? What is going on???????I'm losing my mind!!!!!

 

OMG............I've fallen and I can't get up!!!!!! Where is my soapbox????????

SEMPER FI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Bobgee

 

Forum members - I ask that you please totally ignore the above post which I made in early December. It was done "Tongue-inCheek" or perhaps "Foot-in Mouth" in response to a verrrrrrrrrrrrry long-winded discussion of the title of another WWI book, Alan Axelrod's "Miracle at Belleau Wood - The Birth of the Modern Marine Corps", published in 2007 by The Lyons Press. A forum member who has since been dropped from the USMF launched an attack on the Marine Corps based on the title of the book, while admitting he had never read the book itself - just seen the the title. As I re-read my silly post this AM it is clear that unless you were part of or an observer of the exchanges about "Miracle" it would seem and is, absolutely meaningless, sophmoric and seems to disparage this fine work by LtCol Owen. It was certainly not intended to do that but rather to show (I thought) how ridiculous the former member's attack on a book title really was. Please accept my apologies for any confusion this "OLD" post may cause, when read in an out of context way.

 

Regarding "To the Limit of Endurance: A Battalion of Marines in the Great War" By LtCol Peter Owen USMC (Ret) published by Texas A&M Press in 2007, it is an outstanding work and should be read by all who have an interest in the Great War. The overview of the U.S. participation in the the war, and the difficulties we encountered in preparing our troops and command elements for combat, and shown through the service of just one battalion of Marines, Second Battalion, 6th Marines, in the 4th Brigade, 2nd U.S Infantry Division is spot-on. Owens has no axes to grind. He is very fact-oriented but tells this story in a compelling way. Through his individual stories of particular members you can follow and comprehend what it was like to be a young Marine in battle in France in 1918. As a Marine infantry officer, LtCol Owen knows of what he writes.

 

Axelrod's "Miracle at Belleau Wood" takes a different approach and tells the bigger story. After the dust settles in war it follows that an analysis of the right and the wrong decisions and actions should follow. "Miracle" looks at all of these in his work in an objective way. His intent is to show how the Marine Corps benefitted from having fought in WWI with 2 Regiments of Infantry and a Machine Gun Battalion, in the U.S. Army Chain of Command. Though downsized comsiderably after Nov 1918 and victory, there is no doubt that the Corps and its WWI battle-tried leaders in 1941 were the basis of the growth of the Corps to over 600, 000 Marines in 1945. Recommended reading for both of these fine histories. They do not disapoint

Semper Fi!!!!!!! Bobgee

[FOXHOLE]

Hi !

here is a late proof for the "dropped member", that BW was a Marine Corps victory.

7th Infantry and 26th ID took their part in the battle, but the place has been renamed by french govt :

 

 

Foxy

[teufelhund]

Hi !

here is a late proof for the "dropped member", that BW was a Marine Corps victory.

7th Infantry and 26th ID took their part in the battle, but the place has been renamed by french govt :

 

 

Foxy

 

 

Foxy....

 

You are preaching to long time already convinced people...

EEE YAH YIP

Teufelhund

[devildog34]

for some reason the photo I tried to post of myself with Eugene Lee was too big than the available space, I, in my absence of computer savy, cannot figure out how to make the file smaller to post, I will see what I can do. It was an amazing opportunity to meet and visit with him. For 104 he was very sharp. He recalled his opinion of Lt. Col. Frederick Wise and his memories of Capt. Lloyd Williams. It was an amazing opportunity.

-Semper Fi, Sgt. K. Seldon USMC.

[teufelhund]

[devildog34]

Well I will try a thumbnail photo of Gene Lee and myself during my March 14, 2004 interview. It definately ranks up there among the most honored experiences of my life, just hope the photos uploads so you all can enjoy it as well.

-Semper fi, K. Seldon USMC