USMC T-Handle Shovel Cover

[Shawn Sturgill]

I'm fairly new to USMC stuff, and recently picked up this shovel cover with an original t-handle shovel. The seller never offered it as an original, but I was just curious if any of you could help confirm if it is an original or a reproduction.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks,

-Shawn

[craig_pickrall]

Can you post a pic of the buckle laid out flat?

[Shawn Sturgill]

Can you post a pic of the buckle laid out flat?

 

Here you go:

[Harlan]

I'd vote that it's original. A lot of USMC web gear is completely unmarked.

 

If it was a repro it would most likely have a big fat US stamp and an early date stamped on it because that's what sells. It also looks to have some green corrosion on the hanger which helps date it.

[Ronnie]

I'd vote that it's original. A lot of USMC web gear is completely unmarked.

 

If it was a repro it would most likely have a big fat US stamp and an early date stamped on it because that's what sells. It also looks to have some green corrosion on the hanger which helps date it.

You wouldn't put a U.S. On that one cause it has marine corps hardware and that would be wrong.

IMO I think this is fake. It looks good but I don't like the buckle. I hope I'm wrong but I have one just like it and I know it's fake and I know who made it?

Ronnie

[Bagman]

Shawn,

 

I will have to respectfully disagree with Harlan. Based on my own originals and others that I have seen, I feel that the cover you have shown is most likely a repro. I could certainly be wrong, of course, but several construction details regarding stitching, dimensions, and positioning of component parts, plus just a subjective "feel", say that the cover is not quite correct.

 

Again, that's only a semi-informed opinion....not holy script!! This piece of gear seems to be the most faked of all Marine Corps Philadelphia Depot manufactured items, and some of the repros are fairly sophisticated. This fact makes it difficult to give a guarantee either way--repro or real.

 

With respects,

 

Terry (Bagman)

[doyler]

I'd vote that it's original. A lot of USMC web gear is completely unmarked.

 

If it was a repro it would most likely have a big fat US stamp and an early date stamped on it because that's what sells. It also looks to have some green corrosion on the hanger which helps date it.

 

 

I have a late war dark OD cover and it has had a US stamp put on it.The stamp isnt usually very dark and the US was stamped at an angle. I removed it.From what I understand it was done post war by a dealer to make them more saleable :thumbdown: I know one guy who had arm fulls of WW1 cartridge belts that were as mint as you can get them other than the storage dust.He actually had them stamped US as no one was buying them as they had no US on them...go figure.

[Shawn Sturgill]

Thanks for the responses fellas. As I said, the seller never offered it as an original. I just wanted to be sure of what I had. A buddy of mine mentioned that he thought it could be one of Harlan Glenn's old "Tarawa To Okinawa" reproductions.

 

Thanks,

-Shawn

[etienne]

Thanks for the responses fellas. As I said, the seller never offered it as an original. I just wanted to be sure of what I had. A buddy of mine mentioned that he thought it could be one of Harlan Glenn's old "Tarawa To Okinawa" reproductions.

 

Thanks,

-Shawn

 

... could be :think:

 

I'll second Bagman as it's difficult to know for sure wether it's a repro or an original, even if I lean for a repro

 

Harlan : if the guy who made the repro took the time to find a specific USMC hook, why would he have a US stamped on the cover as it's never seen on Phila Depot items ?

[craig_pickrall]

This is a WW2 Marine, photo was taken around 1943. He has a shovel cover with a US stamp. The only unknown is whether this is an Army cover or a USMC made cover.

 

[etienne]

This is a WW2 Marine, photo was taken around 1943. He has a shovel cover with a US stamp. The only unknown is whether this is an Army cover or a USMC made cover.

 

Generally, if not always, the USMC Depot made or contracted items didn't have the famous US stamp ...

 

but Marines used a bunch of standard QM stuff and I'd bet the cover shown here is of standard army pattern.

[craig_pickrall]

I lean that way too. I think it is probably Army issue but we can never be sure.

['Flage Guy]

Craig: That looks like an Army Rucksack Shovel Cover (very high position); I've got several pics of these in use by Marines at various times in the course of the War...neat bit of trivia.

[artu44]

My two cents. In the pics my original USMC cover with its distinctive hook and a fake big US stamped maybe for sale appeal.

[craig_pickrall]

Craig: That looks like an Army Rucksack Shovel Cover (very high position); I've got several pics of these in use by Marines at various times in the course of the War...neat bit of trivia.

 

 

Jim, that is a nice bit of trivia. I knew it was setting high but didn't consider why.

['Flage Guy]

Artu;

I don't think there's anything fake about your Cover; one old-time military dealer had an old box full of them years ago, and he showed me the original packing slip with the Marine Corps purchase order number. They all had the odd "US" stamped on them at varying positions...top, bottom, crooked angles, some even upside-down. These have been showing up occasionally for many years.

 

Craig:

I'll scan in those pics and put 'em up at the first opportunity. One good shot of this is in Moran's book, showing an Officer in New Caledonia carrying an early Map Case and a M.C. issue M1910 Canteen Cover (he's also using a Fiber Liner under his Pot, IIRC). A Pack-carrying Marine is in the background bending down somewhat, and the high-set Rucksack Shovel Cover is in full view. Also, in that horrific Tom Lea painting of the 1st Division Marine just after being mortally wounded by a mortar blast on Pelelieu, you can see a high-mounted E-Tool poking up above his pack...Lea was a great artist and great on detail, so he no doubt inserted an accurate portrayal of the man's gear.

[artu44]

Artu;

I don't think there's anything fake about your Cover; one old-time military dealer had an old box full of them years ago, and he showed me the original packing slip with the Marine Corps purchase order number. They all had the odd "US" stamped on them at varying positions...top, bottom, crooked angles, some even upside-down. These have been showing up occasionally for many years.

 

Craig:

I'll scan in those pics and put 'em up at the first opportunity. One good shot of this is in Moran's book, showing an Officer in New Caledonia carrying an early Map Case and a M.C. issue M1910 Canteen Cover (he's also using a Fiber Liner under his Pot, IIRC). A Pack-carrying Marine is in the background bending down somewhat, and the high-set Rucksack Shovel Cover is in full view. Also, in that horrific Tom Lea painting of the 1st Division Marine just after being mortally wounded by a mortar blast on Pelelieu, you can see a high-mounted E-Tool poking up above his pack...Lea was a great artist and great on detail, so he no doubt inserted an accurate portrayal of the man's gear.

I see the cover is legit but I dont know who put the big US on. I cannot think USMC would have ordered covers with their hook and a big blue ink US. Maybe an error from some worker and the whole lot was condemned?

[Corpsmancollector]

Artu;

I don't think there's anything fake about your Cover; one old-time military dealer had an old box full of them years ago, and he showed me the original packing slip with the Marine Corps purchase order number. They all had the odd "US" stamped on them at varying positions...top, bottom, crooked angles, some even upside-down. These have been showing up occasionally for many years.

 

I think Artu's cover is original, without a doubt. We've discussed these covers at length previously elsewhere on the forum, I have one too. Jim; given the above, do you think the 'US' stamps were added for sale appeal by a dealer? It doesn't look to me like it matches the 'US' on other original Army items I own, it seems too thick with a fuzzy outline, but anything's possible!

 

I would agree with Terry and Etienne with regards Shawn's cover that was posted initially. Shawn; at first I liked it but having looked closer at the fabric, there was something not quite right I'm afraid. However, it's definitely a good 'filler'. I then thought it could be a TTO repro, however the cover I have that Harlan produced doesn't have the OD7 trim. Although in saying that he could have made some like that! There is a red stamp under the top of the cover that reads: 'TTO USMC' (or something similar).

 

Craig, thanks for posting the pic above of the Marines firing a .30. It's a great one! Interesting to look at the bracelet being worn by the Marine on the right. I think it's most likely an Army cover (but as you say, we'll probably never know for sure!) because it looks as though it might have a 'Boyt' style buckle on it? (the larger curved type used on numerous web gear items).

 

Just my $0.02.

 

Will

['Flage Guy]

Hey Will, good to hear from you-

If you compare the "US" on these particular Shovel Covers with any one of your HBT Marine Utility Coats, you'll see that the letters are identical. If this was a faker's project, he would have endeavoured to give each one a neat, uniform factory appearance so that they would all be identical, as you noted about the one in Craig's photo. The helter-skelter stampings on these Covers, as well as the M.C.-style font, suggests a fast hand-stenciling prior to shipment or issue, rather than some jerk trying to sneak something by the prospecting customer.

[artu44]

Well guys, I know my cover is legit but I cannot see one half reason for that ugly blue inked US on an USMC piece of equipment. Have you warning of other USMC contracted stuff so marked?

['Flage Guy]

Artu: Thus far, these Shovel Covers are the only Marine Corps canvas I've found to be marked this way :think:

 

Craig: Sorry I'm late, but following are some shots of Marines rigged with Rucksack Shovel Covers...

 

Maneuvers on New Caledonia (photo taken from Moran's reference book):

 

['Flage Guy]

SecMarDiv Rifleman awaiting orders behind the seawall at Tarawa...

 

['Flage Guy]

Prelude to the well-known seawall photo; 'flaged guy at right foreground:

 

['Flage Guy]

One of the most famous photos of the Tarawa Assault, and a little better view of the aforementioned Shovel Cover. There is an old colorized version of this shot which mistakenly shows this Cover as made of camouflage material; a close look at the pic in the previous post reveals the "U.S." stamp quite clearly (hard to make out in these darn scans ). Also noticeable are some of the now-rare Demolition Equipment Packs.

 

['Flage Guy]

Marines advancing in Naha, Okinawa...