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A question for our helmet guys!


Sabrejet
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Now that I have your attention, my question is this: When did the US Army phase-out the use of helmet nets as a camouflage aid? Did it just gradually happen, or was there ever an official order to that effect? In the immediate post-war period, nets were still evident. By the Korean War, they seem to have all but disappeared. Army troops frequently resorted to using improvised burlap covers ( the USMC, of course, had retained their own distinctive camo covers) Between the end of the Korean War and the Amy-wide adoption of the Mitchell cover in 1960 there was seven year gap when there appears have been no formal Army policy governing helmet covers / camouflage aids. Any hard info on this? Thanks! :think:

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Good question Ian. I look forward to an answer also!

 

Just think of the potential boost to your helmet net sales if they could be justifiably applied to post-war lids!! :lol:

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I copied these pics from Shelby Stanton's "US Army Uniforms of the Korean War". These are the only examples of netted helmets. Pretty much all of the others have no camouflage aids whatsoever but painted unit markings were commonplace.

 

post-8022-1324320358.jpgpost-8022-1324320335.jpg

 

post-8022-1324320350.jpg

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Interesting to note that the top two appear to be Dennison type nets with large gauge "squares" secured with what appears to be neoprene bands? The captain's shell is presumably also covered with camo pattern parachute silk. The 3rs ID Colonel's net appears to be of WW2 vintage.

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Now that I have your attention, my question is this: When did the US Army phase-out the use of helmet nets as a camouflage aid? Did it just gradually happen, or was there ever an official order to that effect? In the immediate post-war period, nets were still evident. By the Korean War, they seem to have all but disappeared. Army troops frequently resorted to using improvised burlap covers ( the USMC, of course, had retained their own distinctive camo covers) Between the end of the Korean War and the Amy-wide adoption of the Mitchell cover in 1960 there was seven year gap when there appears have been no formal Army policy governing helmet covers / camouflage aids. Any hard info on this? Thanks! :think:

 

It would seem as early as 1946 the nets stoped being used and I have'nt a clue why, this question can fall allong the same lines as why the standard issue British/Canadian Helmet nets not worn in the pacific when they where standard in the MTO and ETO ? especialy given the jungle enviroment would have made these nets ideal.

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Hi Patches. Stopped? Just like that!? Did the practice just gradually fall from favour or was it no longer considered necessary?

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It's an interesting question but there may be no single document explaining the disappearance of nets. Unlike camo covers today, nets were never consistently used during the war, so there may be not even be an order initiating their use. Not only were there multiple types of nets in use, even within the same units, but lots of photos show GIs with no nets at all. War Department TM 5-267 Supplement 5 (Camouflage, 1 October 1943) states: "Although helmet nets are not an item of issue, many of our troops overseas are wearing them. Some have been furnished by the Allies, and some have been made by the troops themselves." One thing that did happen very rapidly in the summer of 1945 was that U.S. ground forces overseas transitioned from a combat force in the field to an occupation force in garrison, where uniformity and cleanliness receive greater emphasis. Guard duty, patrolling occupied cities, inspections and parades called for spit and polish. Interestingly, even the first Marines that landed in Japan were not wearing camo covers. Mark Reynosa's book on Post-War helmets doesn't mention nets at all.

 

My understanding of the early phase of the Korean War was that U.S. troops were ill-prepared and equipped for combat. This link http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/lof....php/t1894.html has a pic of 1st Cavalry troops landing in Korea with some form of improvised nets.

post-2064-1324342026.jpg

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Hi Patches. Stopped? Just like that!? Did the practice just gradually fall from favour or was it no longer considered necessary?

 

Yes I would say stopped, stopped completely, see GTM om1944 quote below, this sums it up the best. Any WWII era nets that could be seen during the korean War appears to be those worn by high ranking army officers, here they just probably had them as part of there personal gear, we all seen photos of Matt Ridgeway with his M1936 suspenders with the Grenade and Airborne bandage attached and taped to the front, it is interesting to note that old Matt brought this rig home with him after the war and upon hearing he was to go to South Korea to take over a field Army, the 8th Army, he dug this rig out of his duffle bag or what not, sans live fragmentation pineapple and put with the stuff he would leave home with and bring out to Japan and then on to the combat area in Korea. With those officers who had WWII helmet nets I feel was the same deal, since it was not an item that was issued anymore.

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Captainofthe7th

Here are some nets in Korea:

 

Korea_60_anniversary_006sjpg_950_2000_0_75_0_50_50sjpg.jpg

 

1-6.jpg

 

Asoldierleaveshismark.jpg

 

In my opinion the nets just stopped moving through the supply chain after WWII. 'Dennison' nets are most popular as they can be cut from vehicle/camo netting.

 

Rob

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Here are some nets in Korea:

 

Korea_60_anniversary_006sjpg_950_2000_0_75_0_50_50sjpg.jpg

 

1-6.jpg

 

Asoldierleaveshismark.jpg

 

In my opinion the nets just stopped moving through the supply chain after WWII. 'Dennison' nets are most popular as they can be cut from vehicle/camo netting.

 

Rob

 

Where did you find the center one photo ? I think this may be a WWII GI from the 25th Infantry Division on Luzon. photos do show that at least one unit of the 25th Inf Division wore the U.S. Made tight mesh nets with band, this unit nor its size is not identified it could be from any of the three Infantry regiments and it being for all I know only a company within this unit that had them

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Thanks for the additional info gentlemen! It would be great if someone could turn up some pics of netted helmets from that period between the end of the Korean War and the adoption of the Mitchell cover around 1960! Any takers? :think:

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Just stumbled upon this interesting pic...not strictly US...apart from the netted M1! It's actually a Bundeswehr infantryman from the mid 50s. Prior to the introduction of their new Stalhelm the Bundeswehr were issued "NATO" helmets...ie M1s.

 

post-8022-1324379140.jpg

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Captainofthe7th
Where did you find the center one photo ? I think this may be a WWII GI from the 25th Infantry Division on Luzon. photos do show that at least one unit of the 25th Inf Division wore the U.S. Made tight mesh nets with band, this unit nor its size is not identified it could be from any of the three Infantry regiments and it being for all I know only a company within this unit that had them

 

It's from the Bob West Korean War photo page. If I can locate I would post it, but I jumped at the opportunity to save the photo when I saw it solely because of the net. If you look at his suspenders I think they are the 1944/45 type with the slide buckles on his shoulders and cloth loops under that. The grenade is hanging on his pocket.

 

Rob

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Captainofthe7th

Here's a link to the page with the photo in question:

http://www.bob-west.com/MISC-PHOTOS19.html

 

And here are some more types of nets in Korea:

Screenshot2011-12-20at110458AM.jpg

It's hard to make out but the lines are too uniform to be foliage.

Screenshot2011-12-20at110808AM.jpg

On the left.

Screenshot2011-12-20at110820AM.jpg

Yes, he definitely looks like a WWII GI with the net and '36 suspenders but that is Korea.

 

Rob

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Captainofthe7th
Thanks for locating and posting those images Rob. Now we can all add nets to our KW lids with impunity! ;)

 

Haha you could try to get away with it but I will make no guarantees that there will not be consequences :) I'd like to find more images, I'll go through a few books soon but I'm pretty sure these are all the netted helmet photos I have. So we have about 10 examples so far from the entire war...definitely a scarce thing to see!

 

Rob

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Haha you could try to get away with it but I will make no guarantees that there will not be consequences :) I'd like to find more images, I'll go through a few books soon but I'm pretty sure these are all the netted helmet photos I have. So we have about 10 examples so far from the entire war...definitely a scarce thing to see!

 

Rob

 

Nevertheless Rob...it's concrete proof that they were used then, albeit in small numbers!

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Captainofthe7th
Nevertheless Rob...it's concrete proof that they were used then, albeit in small numbers!

 

 

Definitely. As patches said a good number of these nets seem to be used by officers. The three you posted from Stantons book are a Capt. w/ the 7th ID, Brigadier Gen. w/ 3rd ID, and a 1st Lt. w/ 1st Cav. I believe all are also fairly early in the war. The image I posted under the sniper looks like a meeting of officers, so we'll say that's an officer with a net as well.

 

And it looks like the 1st Cav photo coming off the landing craft is the only one showing nets in any volume between a group of soldiers. the others are all single instances.

 

Rob

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Here's a link to the page with the photo in question:

http://www.bob-west.com/MISC-PHOTOS19.html

 

And here are some more types of nets in Korea:

Screenshot2011-12-20at110458AM.jpg

It's hard to make out but the lines are too uniform to be foliage.

Screenshot2011-12-20at110808AM.jpg

On the left.

Screenshot2011-12-20at110820AM.jpg

Yes, he definitely looks like a WWII GI with the net and '36 suspenders but that is Korea.

 

Rob

 

 

The guys here are South Korean, no doubt a handfull of these covers found their way to GIs who would where them.

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Definitely. As patches said a good number of these nets seem to be used by officers. The three you posted from Stantons book are a Capt. w/ the 7th ID, Brigadier Gen. w/ 3rd ID, and a 1st Lt. w/ 1st Cav. I believe all are also fairly early in the war. The image I posted under the sniper looks like a meeting of officers, so we'll say that's an officer with a net as well.

 

And it looks like the 1st Cav photo coming off the landing craft is the only one showing nets in any volume between a group of soldiers. the others are all single instances.

 

Rob

 

Yes, In regards to the U.S. made types that we seen in those pics being worn by EMs you can rest assued they where privately aquired and where not issued, not issued in the sence that the Soldier got it issued in Japan which is where I believe replacments had there field gear and personal weapon issued to them during the early war period before heading over to Korea, nor was it a item that he could go to his company supply SGT and get issued to him, if this were the case of company level supply shops or what ever they where called during the Korean war, having any signifact supplies of the U.S. made net and camo band then we would see more much more EMs wearing them then the very,very few (Two so far) being worn. It worth pointing out that in August through September One whole Division, the 2nd Infantry Division was sent dirrectly to Korea from its post at Ft Lewis, the net was not worn by these troops, nor were they worn by the several Infantry Battalions sent out at that time to be reflaged with personel and assigned to the Infantry Regiments already fighting in Korea, these Battalions were sent to be incorperated in mass to make up for the missing battalions in these Infantry Regiments all of whom to include the 1st Cavalry Division was operating with only two of their three Battalions, a very critical tatical disadvantage.

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Very good topic Ian. I was just looking at some photos of KW soldiers on the site I moderate for and noticed that none of them had nets. You could see the light shining off of them on an overcast day. I wonder if when they started issuing helmets for the KW if they just didn't have enough nets or a directive to provide nets. Of course some would be worn - some could have already been in their possession

 

Also someone talked about info concerning the solid OD7 covers that were supposed to have been emergency ordered late in the Korean War because a high ranking officer noticed the glare. The shipment was pushed through very fast and then the ship carrying them sunk so few got through before the KW ended. Obviously there must have been a lot of bare helmets for this to have happened.

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Very good topic Ian. I was just looking at some photos of KW soldiers on the site I moderate for and noticed that none of them had nets. You could see the light shining off of them on an overcast day. I wonder if when they started issuing helmets for the KW if they just didn't have enough nets or a directive to provide nets. Of course some would be worn - some could have already been in their possession

 

Also someone talked about info concerning the solid OD7 covers that were supposed to have been emergency ordered late in the Korean War because a high ranking officer noticed the glare. The shipment was pushed through very fast and then the ship carrying them sunk so few got through before the KW ended. Obviously there must have been a lot of bare helmets for this to have happened.

 

 

Indeed Harlan!

 

post-8022-1324499672.jpg

 

Ian :thumbsup:

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  • 1 year later...

A Korean War Helmet Net sighting, not American but Luxemburgers of the Belgium Battalion some time in 1953, since the Belgiums apart from Steel Helmets where equipped with British stuff, I then imagine the nets will be British as well. So I'm thinking this would be another source of nets for GIs, these British nets, aquired if a GI had the inclination to do so, though we still need to see photographic evidence on this to be certain. We'll keep our eyes peeled.

 

post-34986-0-68662400-1379353047.jpg

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