Tino Posted December 17, 2011 Share #1 Posted December 17, 2011 I have a nice grouping from 2 local WAC sisters that served in the war. Besides the "banana" shaped caps there are also a few male pattern caps that are identified to the sisters. I thought it was interesting to find out that male pattern Garrison hats were used by WAC's. Where they allowed to wear these unauthorized male pattern caps? Tino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CombatEng44 Posted December 19, 2011 Share #2 Posted December 19, 2011 Tino, The USMCWR gals were allowed to use the men's style garrison hat , as well. Every time I've seen photos of WACs wearing the men's cap it's never been in formation. It's always been work detail or off duty. Never thought about it but deserves some comments. I don't think the female version was always available so the male version must have been extensive in the early years. Back to the research! Also, the USMCWR wore men's khaki trousers on some details, too. The WAC's sometimes took the man's trousers, sewed up the front zipper, cut and sewed buttons on the side. Da duh! Womens trousers. Usually can tell right off due to the watch pocket still there. Love collecting women's stuff! Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortworthgal Posted December 21, 2011 Share #3 Posted December 21, 2011 Yes, WACs wore male pattern garrison caps. There wasn't a women's pattern cap approved for the WAC until 1944. Prior to that, they only had the visored "Hobby hat." It wasn't a popular hat - the shape was difficult to keep, and it wasn't comfortable. WACs serving overseas had difficulty getting it cleaned & blocked, so they often wore men's caps. It was never officially authorized, but clearly COs looked the other way on the issue, because there are plenty of photos of male pattern caps being worn with dress uniforms. For work detail, the WACs generally wore daisy maes, the WAC khaki daisy mae, or jeep caps. Do you happen to know where the ladies served? I would bet ETO. As far as work clothing such as pants and things, WACs and Nurses were frequently ill-equipped for overseas duty, and there are hundreds of stories of them acquiring and wearing men's clothing items. They would often trade the men dates or ironing their clothes in exchange for a pair of pants. Army Nurses serving in Europe are often seen wearing men's wool trousers, and in the PTO often in men's khakis. The WR photos I've seen of the ladies wearing men's caps are almost entirely work detail. I have seen *maybe* 1 or 2 postwar shots of the ladies wearing the men's garrison cap with their service greens (on a sidenote, I hate that they put Lena Basilone in this combo in The Pacific). WRs often wore men's utilities and sometimes khakis on work detail. CombatEng44 - I've never seen a pair of altered men's pants. Interesting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TenthA86 Posted December 22, 2011 Share #4 Posted December 22, 2011 FtW: I, too have some altered men's trousers with the fly removed and side buttons added. Mine appear professionally done, and came from the estate of a WAC who served at Camp Hale with the ski troops - the trousers are the wool ski trousers, and were supposedly done at the camp tailor shop. I also have her ski boots that she used for recreational skiing on the weekends - the WACs were NOT trained by the Army to ski. I have a photo (somewhere) of her in a men's red cross sweater vest, men's pattern cap and these trousers in a ski warming hut in early 1944 here in the USA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tino Posted December 24, 2011 Author Share #5 Posted December 24, 2011 Thanks for the interesting feedback! Here is a pic from one of the "girls" wearing a male pattern garrison cap. When I got the uniform I thought the collar brass was replaced as it came with Ordnance collar brass, when I got the album I realized it was original to the uniform. I was under the impression all WACs wore WAC collar brass, this was obviously not the case either. Both "girls" served Stateside. Tino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortworthgal Posted December 28, 2011 Share #6 Posted December 28, 2011 ^ Nice picture! WACs generally wore the collar insignia of whatever they were assigned to - AAF, Signal Corps, Quartermaster, etc. There was some disagreement about this within the Army, and no clear cut regulations until 1945, and so it varied depending on where the WAC was assigned and how the officer in charge felt about it. LOL. Generally they wore the insignia that a man assigned to the same job would have worn, except they were forbidden to wear insignia of infantry, cavalry, field artillery, armored, and a few others - basically any combat unit. In those situations, WACs assigned to those units wore the Pallas Athene/WAC insignia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunbunny Posted December 30, 2011 Share #7 Posted December 30, 2011 A few years ago I bought some items from a former WWII WAC. She volunteered to go overseas as an "Air WAC" and wore a man's OD overseas cap and Ike jacket as part of her uniform. The cap has Air Forces piping on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johan Willaert Posted December 30, 2011 Share #8 Posted December 30, 2011 Cagney & Lacey, 1943 Style... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tino Posted December 30, 2011 Author Share #9 Posted December 30, 2011 Thanks for the interesting additional information and replies! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
market garden Posted January 3, 2012 Share #10 Posted January 3, 2012 I have in my collection a WW2 USMCWR Footlocker group. In the group was a mens wool overseas cap still in the bag ,it was put in at clothing sales size "6" See post #9- .http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=21126&st=0&start=0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortworthgal Posted January 4, 2012 Share #11 Posted January 4, 2012 Cagney & Lacey, 1943 Style... May I ask where this photo is from? My husband is convinced it is reenactor-posed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsybitsy Posted January 6, 2012 Share #12 Posted January 6, 2012 I'd also like to know the source of this photo. WACs carrying side arms is the subject of much debate in the re-enactment community. A photo like this with so little information could be rather volatile. I know couriers carrying important documents were allowed to carry side arms to protect those materials but I have rarely heard of WACs being assigned that type of duty. I do think it is a real ww2 photo based on the hairstyles and the fit of the clothes, both things re-enactors struggle with. However, more information would be greatly appreciated. Where the picture was taken and where it was originally published would be especially useful. -Sarah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
market garden Posted January 6, 2012 Share #13 Posted January 6, 2012 The "Norm" for females was for to carry 38 Cal. revolver when need be. I believe. I have pic in a WW2 AAF unit history showing a Flight nurse in CBI carrying one. Sorry I am off subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsybitsy Posted January 8, 2012 Share #14 Posted January 8, 2012 The "Norm" for females was for to carry 38 Cal. revolver when need be. I believe. I have pic in a WW2 AAF unit history showing a Flight nurse in CBI carrying one. Sorry I am off subject. It was not the norm by any stretch of the imagination for women in the ETO or state side to carry side arms at all during WW2. I have read accounts of Nurses in the PTO doing so because the Japanese did not recognize the Geneva Convention statutes. Even then those accounts describe it as being done very discreetly. When pictures came out of WACS doing weapons training early in their existence the public was very displeased. As a result the Armed forces directed women towards roles that did not require a side arm. This remained a very controversial issue in the women's services into Vietnam. -Sarah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johan Willaert Posted January 8, 2012 Share #15 Posted January 8, 2012 Cagney & Lacey Picture was scanned from this 1987 booklet http://www.amazon.com/United-States-Army-U...8868&sr=8-1 Inside cover is marked: All photographs are US Official IMO all of the pictures in that booklet are original... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortworthgal Posted January 11, 2012 Share #16 Posted January 11, 2012 Very interesting! I too think it *looks* like an original photo, but the sidearm thing threw me. Women almost never carried sidearms and it definitely wasn't the norm. Other things about the picture looked like "reenactorisms" to me - the "naming" on the front of the jeep, stopping to examine a map on the hood, etc. But I suppose it could have been a posed photograph. Regarding sidearms, I've read a couple accounts of Nurses in the PTO and CBI occasionally having weapons, obviously not acquired through official channels, for the reasons ItsyBitsy mentioned. I've also read 1 account of a WASP pilot carrying a 1911, but I have *never* heard or read anything else about that, so I tend to question it even though that came directly from a veteran. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johan Willaert Posted January 11, 2012 Share #17 Posted January 11, 2012 Names and other markings on Jeep windshields were, while not the norm, plentiful during WW2... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uplandmod Posted January 11, 2012 Share #18 Posted January 11, 2012 It looks like an original, but posed, picture to me. Leonardo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortworthgal Posted January 11, 2012 Share #19 Posted January 11, 2012 Names and other markings on Jeep windshields were, while not the norm, plentiful during WW2... True, it was done... but it is done far more often by reenactors than it ever was originally. That was my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johan Willaert Posted March 11, 2012 Share #20 Posted March 11, 2012 Here's a another version of the above picture taken a few seconds apart, scanned from John Farley's 1st Jeep book.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AverageJoeWWII Posted November 20, 2012 Share #21 Posted November 20, 2012 In research of a WAAC grouping I have there is a news article quoting the WAAC officer who was in charge of payroll saying she would " strap on two pistols, one on each hip to deliver the payroll in cash to the troops" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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