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P1942 USMC Camo Jacket


2ad82recon

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usmcraidergirl

Not win73-4440 again. On him alone, I would stay away.

 

Not too long ago he sold a fake KIA pilot's group and a fake Paramarine group and a fake Raider group. Okay, I'll stop listing them. Anyway, his groups are all over the place as far as what is bad in them (sometimes it is fakes put with real named items to the vet and other times it is just entirely fake). If he is selling, I would stay away.

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Greg Robinson

Actually, it does look pretty good but then the current crop of reproductions are very good. My main objection to this item on ebay is that it is to minty looking. Also, the base color on the greenside is a bit _too_ green and it may not be a coincidence that some of the repros sold recently have tended to be a bit too green. Also, I noticed that the size stamp is overly large, maybe to cover up the reproduction size stamp? Originals were sized in chest size, i.e. 38, 40. 42, etc. But the reproducers are markings them L, XL, etc. Bottom line is, for the kind of money this item will sell for it simply ain't worth the risk. I would ONLY buy a USMC P42 cammie from a vet or his family, from a trusted dealer, or from a venue such as a thrift store, etc where the price is cheap enough that what have you got to lose by buying it. And I would want it to show age and wear.

 

Here's a pic of an original P44 on the left and what I consider to be a good reproduction P42 on the right.

 

post-4-1162078720.jpg

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Just checked his other items and he seems to have some "high end" quality USMC items, that on the surface seem legit. As for the dungaree top with all the repops out there at present and good ones at that how do you determine real from fake on this item.

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usmcraidergirl

Yeah, the trick with this guy is researching the vet. Many times there is no name on the stuff, so he could add any name that fits the stuff onto it. On the KIA stuff, it was technically all WWII stuff. But, the Marine was KIA in 1942. What was suspecious was he had some late war elements with the group. Definitely not that guy's stuff, since dead guys don't do things like that. Also, sometimes something will have an official name stamp. What happens, is two things: (1) it is a small item, like a tie or a paper document, that belonged to the real Marine he claims the stuff is from and then he builds a grouping around that OR (2) it is an item named to a real Marine who just happens to have the same first two initials and last name as a Marine Navy Cross recipient (or something like that) - thus, he takes another Marine's stuff and claims he belonged to the other Marine. So, he's tricky with it. I would be aware.

 

Something strikes me as off about the color (could just be the picture) and the sizing stamp. That sizing stamp looks like a repro I've seen for sale on ebay in the past. I'll see if I can't find the seller later. I don't think it was atthefront or anyone with a big website like that.

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craig_pickrall

I compared the one I have to this one. This comparison included the number of stiches in the sewing, HBT pattern of material, etc. It is either real or an excellent copy.

 

There are two things different than the one I have. Mine does not have a size stamp in the neck but the USMC / EGA stencils are in good condition. If the size stamp had been there then there would still be some sign of it. The one for sale has two different design buttons on the two lower pockets. Mine has the same design on both pockets. My buttons are like the flat face buttons shown on the tan side.

 

The one area not shown in any of the pics is the collar closure. This area is different than normal and I wanted to compare mine with the one for sale but can't.

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Greg Robinson

I own an original mint never washed set of USMC P44 cammies. The size marking on the jacket is a (#44) stamped on the inside of the collar and a couple other places. I agree with raidergirl that the font of the markings on the example in question are suspicious. I recently saw a pair of Marine HBT dungaree trousers that might have been legit but the markings were suspicious and the fonts of the size markings were the same as on this P42 jacket.

 

The size stamp washed away quickly on those. Along with my mint P44's I also bought a near mint set that was still excellent, near mint, condition and it was missing the collar size stamp although there were other stamps in other locations if you looked carefully.

 

 

All this being said, the jacket could be legit. But you have to ask yourself, do I want to take the risk of getting an item which I will always wonder about?

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This is my email to Marine-Kabar just now. I think this about sums it up guys and girls.

 

Hey mate, yeah have you noticed the distinct lack of early flurry bids. Either people are WAY too cautious or ol Teufelhound 1918 is gonna get a BARGAIN.

 

 

 

I think the ONLY TRUE way to be 100% sure is like you say, lay it next to a bonafide original and compare like for like. Other than that thats a hell of a risk to take.

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OMG, the high bid at the moment is $900 and the bidder is from there in the "colonies". So IS it REAL?

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craig_pickrall

Hey guys I was just taking another look and may have spotted something.

 

The lower pocket, green side out appears to be made from USMC weave HBT with the chevron pattern.

 

/\

/\

/\

 

It should be made from Army pattern HBT with the weave pattern like:

 

\_

\_

\_

 

The one I have is made from army pattern material.

 

Give a look and see what you think about that pattern.

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Greg Robinson

That would add credibility to it being legit. A reproduction would be made out of the same batch of cloth, not necessarily so with wartime manufacturing.

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craig_pickrall

Did USMC pattern camo HBT even exist at that time? I thought all of the camo was army pattern HBT.

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So did I too, I thought that USMC weave was only applicable to Sage Green Utilities.

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Greg Robinson

Good point. All the camouflage HBT fabric during that period came from the same source be it Army or Marines. I guess a reproducer might buy fabric from where ever he could get it and might give no thought to mixing it up figuring most guys wouldn't know the difference or wouldn't care.

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I think it would be great to create a thread that is nothing but samples of legit fabric weaves and camo patterns. If you lay a shirt, for instance, on a scanner, I think it will create a pretty good representation of the weave. We often read references to various HBT patterns in everything from clothing to helmet liner suspensions, so having a one-stop reference would be an invaluable tool.

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craig_pickrall

Did any of you look at the pic to see if you agree that the pocket is the wrong HBT weave pattern?

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Greg Robinson

Yeah, I just looked again and I see the same thing on that pocket that Craig does. And I also see what looks like USMC weave HBT in the fabric surrounding that pocket. Problem is that sort of thing is hard to see in a pic. I guess it all comes down to whether you want to spend that sort of money on an item which you don't trust. Me, I don't want one of those that badly and couldn't afford to spend that kind of money on it even if I did trust it. Somewhere out there exists one of these in well used condition in a thrift shop somewhere.

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Greg Robinson

It's entirely possible that this P42 shirt is a reproduction/fake and the seller doesn't know. I recall buying what seemed to be a mint WW2 helmet with USMC camouflage cover from a trustworthy dealer about ten years ago. It was beautiful and I believed the dealer when he said it came from an old collection. But while the fixed bail helmet and liner were legit and pristine the cover was one of the early fakes made out of original WW2 USMC shelter halfs. It being non HBT should have been definitive but when I contacted the two gurus of US helmets even they didn't agree on this. When I finally concluded I had a fake and told the dealer who had sold it to me he never doubted my word and we worked out a settlement so that I could keep the helmet since it really was an outstanding example of an early WW2 rig. He accepted that he had made a mistake when he bought the helmet. Who knows, the owner of the collection also may not have known. So the bottom line here is you can't put too much importance on the fact that an item came from a "20 year collection". Heck, even museums have been known to have fakes.

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craig_pickrall

There is a lot of truth in that statement Greg. Honest mistakes do happen. I think there are so many repros today many honest mistakes get painted with the faker brush.

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craig_pickrall

About 1983 a friend owned a surplus store. I was visiting him and he had just got in a new group of surplus he had bought from the gov't. I was getting ready to start digging thru it when I noticed a piece of duck hunter camo in his dog's bed. I picked it up and it was the P42 shirt. I asked him and he said it was pretty faded and wouldn't sell in the store. I asked what he wanted for it and he said I could have it but the dog might not like it. The shirt is solid no holes or tears except the dog did chew off a small corner of one collar. I thought it was a fair price for such a poor shirt. It is the only P42 I have ever seen available.

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Crikey, I hope you didnt get the dog too mad at ya. Anyway, guys notice something else bout that Cammo dungaree top, the seller hasnt placed what I would call and adequate value reserve on it either. He, I think was sweating on the fact that the frenzy would mask the fact that it was "POSSIBLY" A FAKE. We will all know in a couple of hours time.

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craig_pickrall

I didn't get the dog mad. We had plenty of P44 camo tops so I just gave him one of those.

 

That was a good spot on the reserve. As much as this guy knew about that top he should have had some idea of value and placed a reserve accordingly.

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Well its broke the $1000, sellers gonna have a good day and the High bidder, YEP, location Japan.

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I see a lot of things being done without a reserve and in fact I have been surprised how little it is used: I think there is sometimes a feeling that the marketplace will push it up in price anyway and if the seller got the item cheap enough, then they are often willing to let it go for less than "market value." The only time I use a Reserve price is when I've paid too much for something in the first place.

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  • 1 month later...

P42s are in high demand and they just aren't out there anymore to fill that demand!

I think, rightfully, that these are gaining in value. They are much harder to find than airborne M42s or army camo HBTs...

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