Captured Aircraft

[Harlan]

I haven't been here long enough to know if this has been done before as a thread suject, but can we start a thread with stories and photos of aircraft captured by the opposing enemy forces of any era? For some reason, the thought of flying a captured or stolen enemy aircraft is interesting to me.

 

I don't know if it's accurate, but I've read that sometimes the Germans used captured B-17's that still had American markings and flew at altitude trying to find and blend in with American bomber formations to wreak havoc.

 

Below is a photo I don't think has been published much, if at all. When I was doing the newsletter for the CAF a gentleman I never met sent me a CD with photos he took near the end of the war. The photos began right after the Battle of the Bulge and he took photos all the way to Berlin. His notes said he had the slides since WWII and had just gotten equipment so he could make them into photos. He was part of Patton's staff and took many interesting photos. I just found this one on my hard drive this afternoon and it reminded me of USMF.

(If there's no interest in the subject, it's no problem, OK?)

 

Obviously this B-24 has been marked with German markings so it wasn't shot down by their own Luftwaffe and probably flown to find strengths and weaknesses.

 

 

Now I need to try to find that CD he sent! I haven't looked through it in years and there were some really interesting and unique photos.

 

~ Harlan

[Sabrejet]

Great picture Harlan...not one I've every seen before. The recent thread linked below was very successful...lots of hits and responses. It contains a number of pics of captured planes. Check it out!

 

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ind...howtopic=122211

[Gregory]

That plane could belong to the Luftwaffe's KG 200.

[ithaca37]

There is a book about this subject called Strangers in a Strange Land. The author is Hans - Heiri Stapfer. The book is an interesting read.

[gwb123]

The Germans not only flew captured aircraft to evaluate them, but also used them to shadow Allied formations... pulling up behind them and relaying altitude, speed and direction... great informatin to have if you are in an anti-aircraft artillery unit.

 

If I recall correctly, they also used them on a few infiltration missions as well.

[Sabrejet]

I think perhaps the best known of these was a captured B-17 re-christened "Wulf Hound" ?

 

 

 

 

http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/b17fortress.html

[gwb123]

I think perhaps the best known of these was a captured B-17 re-christened "Wulf Hound" ?

 

http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/b17fortress.html

 

That just looks wrong everytime I see it! But with the number of them that crashed on German soil it's not surprising they were able to rebuild a number of them.

[J_Andrews]

Any forum people know of the ITALIANS using captured/refurbished USAAF aircraft? My uncle -- a WWII aviation war correspondent -- told me that they used P-38s, A-20s and at least one "famous" B-25, as intruders and recon platforms, and that the P-38s at least shot down some unwary Allied planes.... He also said that the Italians loved the P-38 and tried to reverse-engineer it -- ??

[Harlan]

Thanks for the link to the other thread. It was really interesting!

 

I just went back through tons of old stuff I have saved from doing the newsletter for years and found the CD with photos and captions by the young captain who was on Patton's staff. He wrote to me and said I could use the photos for anything non-commercial. I hadn't seen it in years and was happy I could find it. There are a couple hundred photos he took from Normandy to Berlin. He arrived on the beech of Normandy 101 days after D-Day. Many photos looked like any tourist would take of large buildings, statues and structures, lots of bombed out and still burning buildings, also a dead GI that the Germans had booby-trapped (which I left out) and lots and lots of destroyed panzers which I also left out because they didn't have a US soldier in them.

 

I went through them and uploaded a few from different subjects I thought you guys might find interesting.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is an L-5 Stinson Sentinel, but it's easy to understand the confusion.

My buddy has a Stinson Reliant which was only used by the British during WWII Lend Lease

 

 

[Harlan]

 

 

 

 

 

[Gregory]

The CG-4A may be post-DDay. The glider is prepared for chute-assisted landing, moreover the place in terrain and landscape is similar to one of the LZs in Varsity. But I am not a hundred percent sure.

[Harlan]

You're most likely correct Gregory. There were several captions about equipment; especially photos of knocked out Panzers that weren't correct, but I figure he was working from 60 year old memory when he wrote the captions, and in some cases the young GI's probably incorrectly told each other what they were viewing at the time and it stuck in his memory.

[Cobrahistorian]

Ian, great that you posted that profile of "Wulf Hound"! We were just talking about this airplane the other day on another thread in this forum. Member Gunsight has it's control panel, which clearly shows added German markings!

 

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ind...howtopic=123001

 

The Germans operated at least one of every major type of US aircraft, as Gregory said, by KG200.

 

Here's a smattering:

 

Mustangs:

http://www.mustang.gaetanmarie.com/article...any/germany.htm

 

Jugs:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/bud_scotland/6022190112/

[Harlan]

Thanks for the links, Cobrahistorian! The second link with all the info was particularly interesting. Those Luftwaffe pilots really had a hard time of it near the end of the war and many flew until their death.

 

There were several interesting German aircraft photos on that CD taken by the American captain, but I didn't show them because they didn't show any Americans or American equipment in the photo. He took some photos of the autobahn and the Germans had torn down small bridges over the autobahn so it could be used as a concealed airstrip, and ME-262s and JU-88's were hidden under trees just off the shoulder of the highway. I don't know the actual truth, but I've read that the US interstate system was copied from the autobahn, and in the early planning as the cold war began there were mandatory straight stretches of interstate highway every so many miles so that it could be used by aircraft in a national emergency as the Germans had done. It's sometimes hard to track down myths from truth though. It was interesting in the second link how it debunked the stories of captured aircraft being used much to 'sneak' into American formations. It made sense that the captured American aircraft were much more valuable traveling to different units training them the weaknesses flying than the chance of losing them in combat trying to down a few aircraft.

[Sabrejet]

Any forum people know of the ITALIANS using captured/refurbished USAAF aircraft? My uncle -- a WWII aviation war correspondent -- told me that they used P-38s, A-20s and at least one "famous" B-25, as intruders and recon platforms, and that the P-38s at least shot down some unwary Allied planes.... He also said that the Italians loved the P-38 and tried to reverse-engineer it -- ??

 

If the Italians re-engineered it, it would've looked great....but would've broken down every ten minutes!

[General Apathy]

The CG-4A may be post-DDay. The glider is prepared for chute-assisted landing, moreover the place in terrain and landscape is similar to one of the LZs in Varsity. But I am not a hundred percent sure.

 

I agree with Gregory's assessment of this photo, I had been looking at the photo and it bears no resemblance of the Normandy landscape, either trees or the building in the background.

 

Othere than this there are some great photos in this topic. :thumbsup:

 

ken

[Gregory]

I agree with Gregory's assessment of this photo, I had been looking at the photo and it bears no resemblance of the Normandy landscape, either trees or the building in the background.

 

Othere than this there are some great photos in this topic. :thumbsup:

 

ken

Yes, I bet Germany and Operation Varsity.

 

[Gregory]

I knew I saw somewhere that glider, that scene, that landscape! And I found it.

 

Take a look below -- that's the same CG-4A but taken of the other angle. Many years ago there was an online auction for this photo. I lost it but saved the photo. The offerer stated that it was taken in January 1945 near Bastogne. If it is the truth then the glider belongs not to Operation Varsity, as I thought, but to Operation Repulse. Somehow or other this is not D-Day scene as described in the book.

[Golem]

I don't know the actual truth, but I've read that the US interstate system was copied from the autobahn, and in the early planning as the cold war began there were mandatory straight stretches of interstate highway every so many miles so that it could be used by aircraft in a national emergency as the Germans had done. It's sometimes hard to track down myths from truth though.

This is not a myth.

 

Eisenhower was so impressed with the autobahn, that when he became president, he instituted the "Eisenhower Interstate System" in the USA.

 

Yes, straight stretches were included for aircraft use during wartime.

[Gregory]

This is not a myth.

 

Eisenhower was so impressed with the autobahn, that when he became president, he instituted the "Eisenhower Interstate System" in the USA.

 

Yes, straight stretches were included for aircraft use during wartime.

What a pity USAF does not train off-field operations from public roads as it was done in ex-WarPac air forces, but -- if I am not mistaken -- still is trained in Switzerland, Sweden, Israel and Singapore.

 

Twice I observed such exercises as a journalist and it is really big adventure both for pilots and observers. In the Cold War era also the RAFG and Luftwaffe's Alpha Jet pilots were masters of public road airstrips.

 

Since Poland bought the F-16C Block 52M+ fighters they operate from the bases only, never from the roads as it was in WarPac era.

[Cobrahistorian]

About the only jets that do are USMC Harriers. We helicopter guys are a bit different, but I agree, it would be cool seeing a pair of F-16s taking off from I-95!

 

What a pity USAF does not train off-field operations from public roads as it was done in ex-WarPac air forces, but -- if I am not mistaken -- still is trained in Switzerland, Sweden, Israel and Singapore.

 

Twice I observed such exercises as a journalist and it is really big adventure both for pilots and observers. In the Cold War era also the RAFG and Luftwaffe's Alpha Jet pilots were masters of public road airstrips.

 

Since Poland bought the F-16C Block 52M+ fighters they operate from the bases only, never from the roads as it was in WarPac era.

[Sabrejet]

A Taiwanese F-16 landing on one of their highways.

 

[Sabrejet]

About the only jets that do are USMC Harriers. We helicopter guys are a bit different, but I agree, it would be cool seeing a pair of F-16s taking off from I-95!

 

The RAF used to routinely do that...until they sold off our Harriers to you guys! :crying:

[Gregory]

The RAF used to routinely do that...until they sold off our Harriers to you guys! :crying:

I will never forget the pictorials of Cold War era published in the West German "Flug Revue" monthly when the RAFG's Harrier GR Mk 1s and Mk 3s were taxiing between the trees in deep forests.

[Gregory]

I agree, it would be cool seeing a pair of F-16s taking off from I-95!

Good old days of the air operations from public roads.