Which did you like better?

[Sabrejet]

At the end of the day they both have their merits. I suppose it's a bit like asking someone if they prefer strawberries or chocolate!

[67Rally]

I don't have a lot to add to the pros/cons discussed here for either series. I simply enjoy them both. I've always had a spot in my heart for military films (even some of the really bad ones have, at least, entertainment value). I tend to focus on compelling story-telling and cinematography as the primary element of the production. Characters (actual or fictional) have to be strong and thy must be connectable or detestable (to me) or somewhere in between.

 

When it comes to telling stories of actual events I, like many here, want to see the facts remain as such...not morphed for "hollywooding" the story up. I like to see the accuracy of the gear used in the film (meaning uniforms, vehicles, weapons, vessels, etc.). I also need to see that these elements are woven together with the script/dialogue/scenes in such a way that they don't dominate or detract from the central theme of the film.

 

Now considering all of that, both productions possessed these for me.

 

BoB had that linear/time-line aspect following the group from start to finish of the war and their service within. The script was strong and having the central players available to draw on (for the actors, writers, directors) to help with details and nuances was truly visible in the end product. It was a fantastic work.

 

The Pacific seemed to be the piece where the producers didn't want to repeat what they did on BoB. The story didn't lend itself to that method. In fact, I felt like the entire Pacific series resembled the two BoB episodes, Crossroads and Why We Fight in the way the individual episodes were designed. The visuals were stunning and on a seemingly grander scale than BOB. Having served in the Pacific theater my entire naval career (in the 80s -90s), the vivid nature of the tropics (and the color of the seas) was truly captured. The juxtaposition of that against the devastation shown in the battle areas was quite moving.

 

I'd say that the Pacific moved me in the sense that it was a visceral experience. It hurt at times to watch some of the scenes as they portrayed the terrible horrors and the toll they took on the men. Not to say that the PTO was worse than the ETO...but the nature of the enemy was very different - the men on the 'Canal learned very quick just how different they were. The men in the PTO had to adapt (their own morals and ethics) to withstand the terrible nature of that sort of fighting. Is that to say that happening upon a German death camp didn't have similar impacts for ETO vets? Hardly. Just illustrating that when the PTO combatants met the enemy, they were vastly different. I think that The Pacific captured that and it wasn't "enjoyable" for the broad audiences.

 

All of this is really subjective. I have family that fought in both theaters (most of them in the PTO) and I have heard scant details from both theater family vets. War is hell and these guys walked/sailed through it all. These series, in my view, are equals and have strengths and weaknesses. I can sit down and watch either with total "enjoyment" for all that I mentioned above. They both conjure incredible emotions no matter how many times I watch them.

 

I'll add that I am friends with the daughter of one of the BoB vets centrally portrayed in the series...and have been for a few years. I have talked with her father on several occasions and cherish every visit.

[Jack's Son]

That's very close to the ratio of Soldiers to Marines who are present here...

I didn't look at it in that way. I was voting for the "production" I liked best. My Father served in the 3rd Defense Battalion, 1st Division on both Guadalcanal and Bougainville. I love the Corps History. :salute: :bravo:

[BOLO]

I hope they also do a series about Vietnam

[Harlan]

I didn't quite get the colors going in and out either, but I think it was an attempt at making the experience seem as when you're remembering something, or as when everything went completely quiet and slow motion for Tom Hanks when he was first on the beach.

 

Regardless, I felt BoB/SPR lent a surreal feel to them that immersed me in what was going on.

 

The Pacific had nothing of the kind - It reminded me of all movie sequel's that attempt to ride on the coattails of success without the budget/work of the original.

[Jeeper704]

Adding to Ken88's reaction; the Germans - although not by far as common as with the Japanese - also had kamikaze-like pilots.

Don't forget the German pilots that steered their fighters towards Allied bombers.

Of course they were smart enough to bail out at the very last minute.

You also had the manned V1 buzz bombs although I think they never got past the experimental stage.

 

I do agree that movies and series about the PTO tend to be more brutal than those about the ETO or MTO.

As you, ken88, I have seen plenty of movies and series about the ETO and PTO.

 

It is only logical I feel a closer connection to ETO related series as it happened "right outside my door" so to speak.

PTO is "on the other end of the world" for me.

I hope you understand what I'm trying to say.

 

Erwin

[ken88]

Hi Erwin,

 

Of course. Most of all because I live in Belgium as well Small world huh

But you are right it's too dangerous to compare both. Fact that the Germans bailed out the last sec is a very big difference in their state of mind though. The Japs were 'honoured' that they could end their life that way, but as I said I won't mind comparing anymore

 

Cheers!

[Jeeper704]

Small world indeed. :thumbsup:

 

Erwin

[king802]

I personally liked the Pacific better.

 

I thought the combat scenes were a lot better and some of the small technical sides of things were very good, take for instance the scene with the guy strangling the wounded Japanese soldier - he put's his helmet down to reveal a green painted Rayon webbed St Clair liner. There are so many things that are easy to miss. I've watched it twice and see new things all the time.

 

Some people didn't get the characters. Being Ex-Army and Infantry in particular i could relate to them very well.

 

It's horses for courses i suppose but for me Pacific was a superior piece of work.

 

Rich

[teufelhunde.ret]

It's horses for courses i suppose but for me Pacific was a superior piece of work.

:thumbsup:

[Jack's Son]

It's horses for courses i suppose but for me Pacific was a superior piece of work.

Rich

Now you've got me doubting......?

I'll have to review The Pacific again.

[ge999]

I personally liked the Pacific better.

 

I thought the combat scenes were a lot better and some of the small technical sides of things were very good, take for instance the scene with the guy strangling the wounded Japanese soldier - he put's his helmet down to reveal a green painted Rayon webbed St Clair liner. There are so many things that are easy to miss. I've watched it twice and see new things all the time.

 

Some people didn't get the characters. Being Ex-Army and Infantry in particular i could relate to them very well.

 

It's horses for courses i suppose but for me Pacific was a superior piece of work.

 

Rich

 

Amen to that :bravo:

 

The Pacific is a brilliant tribute to all the Marines and Army soldiers that had to endure both the worst that mankind could inflict on each other as well as Mother Nature doing its part to make that fight even more miserable either by rain, extreme heat, mud or semi-ballistic coral terrain. While the PTO had all the same elements as the ETO (save the u-boats) the fighting that people find most exciting or entertaining like dogfights, tank battles and artillery; the PTO didn't have the same kind of flashy, over the top commanders (like Goering) or the SS; the kind of people you love to hate as the villains. Instead they (generally) had very competent and experienced leadership that knew how to best inflict damage on our soldiers.

 

John Basilone I think best describes the Japanese soldier as, "not caring if he lives or dies, as long as he kills you he has done his duty". The combat wasn't as glorious as many describe the ETO in terms of excitement because the fighting was so gritty and personal. Of my family that fought in WWII all were in the ETO (though my Grandfather was awaiting transfer to the Philippines on the West Coast for action in the PTO when they dropped the first bomb) all of them resented the Japanese tenfold more than they did any of the European commanders or soldiers. Those that went there did so voluntarily knowing that they were fighting for the freedom of our country. Though the statement doesn't apply to those in this forum, I don't think that it was until recently that the US public in general was ready to see what the cost of our freedom was; which was bought for with the lives of all the Marines, Sailors, Corpsmen and Soldiers in the PTO, and how high that price was for each battle that was fought. That is what the I found the essence of The Pacific to be about, and the living hell of those that went had to deal with every day in order to just survive to fight the next day.

[JollyGreenSlugg]

I'm not ashamed to say that I sobbed like a baby at the end of The Pacific. The reminder that these men who experienced and saw so much were normal young men. Seeing where the survivours went after their service set something off in me.

 

I'd read some of the books before seeing the series, so I enjoyed the series more as a result. Also, the personal connection of having grown up in Melbourne with grandparents' stories of the USMC in town made it a little more personal.

 

I think it's hard to directly compare The Pacific with Band of Brothers. They're so different in scope and detail.

 

Cheers,

Matt

[ge999]

I'm not ashamed to say that I sobbed like a baby at the end of The Pacific. The reminder that these men who experienced and saw so much were normal young men. Seeing where the survivours went after their service set something off in me.

 

I'd read some of the books before seeing the series, so I enjoyed the series more as a result. Also, the personal connection of having grown up in Melbourne with grandparents' stories of the USMC in town made it a little more personal.

 

I think it's hard to directly compare The Pacific with Band of Brothers. They're so different in scope and detail.

 

Cheers,

Matt

 

I admit that watching the end of The Pacific for the first time was like watching Old Yeller, its hard to hold back the tears. So many men that did extraordinary things and lives cut short; along with all those that survived that came back that were never the same again. In order to defeat the Japanese they had to stoop down to their level and fight, and so many servicemen were never able to come back out of that mindframe that its cruel in a way what an entire generation had to endure (while the soldiers on the other side of the globe enjoyed all the libations and celebrations they could handle).

[willysmb44]

I hope they also do a series about Vietnam

If they ever do, you can almost count on it being about a SEAL or Force Marine Recon unit.

The only real complaint I have about BoB and The Pacific is that they not only focused on the smaller percentage of the people who fought (paratroopers and Marines) but also they denigrated everyone else in the process. Sure, EVERYONE feels their unit is better than anyone else’s, but I got a little offended at the portrayal of the ‘leg’ soldiers in BoB and VERY offended at the portrayal of the Army in The Pacific. In each case, you’re looking at a relatively small portion of the overall effort (even if it was a very important portion). I don’t mean to say that the 101st or the USMC didn’t do their part and do it darned well, but we now have a generation that REALLY thinks the 101st won the war in Europe almost single-handedly. People already think the USMC took on the Japs alone with the Army, and The Pacific did nothing to correct that.

I admit that watching the end of The Pacific for the first time was like watching Old Yeller, its hard to hold back the tears.

I agree to that. The whole “hunting trip with Dad” sequence at the end rang true of anyone from any war (“Boardwalk Empire” has done an admirable job of portraying this among WW1 vets as well). I’ve never fought in a war, but I usually can’t watch a scene in a movie that shows someone giving a death notification to a wife without clamming up and staring off into space for a while because I’ve had that terrible duty. A couple of other bad things that happened to me in the service come back if I see them on film as well. I have a couple of friends who saw a lot of action in the sandbox recently and every now and then they will just lock up. One said to me after he’d done that (you could tell something took him ‘back there’ for a moment), that he appreciated that I never asked him why or what it was he was thinking of at the time.

[patches]

If they ever do, you can almost count on it being about a SEAL or Force Marine Recon unit.

The only real complaint I have about BoB and The Pacific is that they not only focused on the smaller percentage of the people who fought (paratroopers and Marines) but also they denigrated everyone else in the process. Sure, EVERYONE feels their unit is better than anyone else’s, but I got a little offended at the portrayal of the ‘leg’ soldiers in BoB and VERY offended at the portrayal of the Army in The Pacific. In each case, you’re looking at a relatively small portion of the overall effort (even if it was a very important portion). I don’t mean to say that the 101st or the USMC didn’t do their part and do it darned well, but we now have a generation that REALLY thinks the 101st won the war in Europe almost single-handedly. People already think the USMC took on the Japs alone with the Army, and The Pacific did nothing to correct that. I agree to that. The whole “hunting trip with Dad” sequence at the end rang true of anyone from any war (“Boardwalk Empire” has done an admirable job of portraying this among WW1 vets as well). I’ve never fought in a war, but I usually can’t watch a scene in a movie that shows someone giving a death notification to a wife without clamming up and staring off into space for a while because I’ve had that terrible duty. A couple of other bad things that happened to me in the service come back if I see them on film as well. I have a couple of friends who saw a lot of action in the sandbox recently and every now and then they will just lock up. One said to me after he’d done that (you could tell something took him ‘back there’ for a moment), that he appreciated that I never asked him why or what it was he was thinking of at the time.

 

I agree, for instance in BoB, in the Hagenau episode, they take over the positions formaly occupied by the 79th Inf Div, they seen not have had a great deal of respect for this unit. Its funny because in realty the Cross Of Lorraine seen more combat, much more, suffered more killed and wounded, it had 3 medal of honor recipients ( one more than the 101) I believe more in silver star and air medal awards to individuals, with all of its infantry regiments receiving PUCs, one of its FA Battalions, the 312th also receiving a PUC it was also one of the very few Divisions in WWII that a award was made of two french Croix de guerre's with palm, this entitling the entire division to wear the WWII French fourragere.

[king802]

I agree, for instance in BoB, in the Hagenau episode, they take over the positions formaly occupied by the 79th Inf Div, they seen not have had a great deal of respect for this unit. Its funny because in realty the Cross Of Lorraine seen more combat, much more, suffered more killed and wounded, it had 3 medal of honor recipients ( one more than the 101) I believe more in silver star and air medal awards to individuals, with all of its infantry regiments receiving PUCs, one of its FA Battalions, the 312th also receiving a PUC it was also one of the very few Divisions in WWII that a award was made of two french Croix de guerre's with palm, this entitling the entire division to wear the WWII French fourragere.

 

I think a lot of Regular Infantry Division vets must feel very sidelined by the more glamorous Airborne and Marine Divisions. A lot of their fantastic combat records are unknown about by the vast majority of people.

The 34th Infantry Division for instance fought in North Africa and all through the un-glamorous Italian campaign, saw more combat than any other unit. They were real veterans before the 101st saw their first combat. I'm not taking away from 101's fine record but they certainly over shadow a lot of other units.

I'd love the Italian campaign to get the BOB and Pacific treatment. I think the best examples we have are "A Walk in the Sun" and "The Story of GI Joe".

 

Let's get a nice modern update. :thumbsup:

 

Rich

[VirtualMariner]

I think a lot of Regular Infantry Division vets must feel very sidelined by the more glamorous Airborne and Marine Divisions. A lot of their fantastic combat records are unknown about by the vast majority of people.

 

I'm sure people in the Artillery, or other non-infantry units feel left out, as well. Some things just don't translate as well into Hollywood-style entertainment, though, I guess. The public perception plays a lot into this, as well, even beyond movies and TV.

 

During the Guadalcanal campaign, the Navy had 3 sailors killed for every 1 Marine killed in action. You never really even hear about this, much less see a movie or series filmed about it. The people are just as dead, but the perception of their service is very different by the public and, for that matter, by other service members. A boiler tech working in the engine room or a radar operator sitting at a scope just aren't as compelling of an image for entertainment value - even when they're being killed by the enemy.

 

I'm sure similar analogies can be made for many different segments of the military, but some things just make better entertainment than others and that is only compounded by the fact that, entertainment aside, credit is just not given to many parts of the military for the job they do and sacrifices they make...even the ultimate sacrifice. Still, I watch and enjoy the shows like these that are made and, when they're done well, I think they can serve as a good example to the public of of just a small part of what service members do on their behalf.

[mconrad]

Especially towards the end of the series, PACIFIC seemed to be "OK, today we film this cool scene from the books, and tomorrow we'll shoot this other neat scene." And they were kind of just stiched together, and every one had to be something cool or over the top. It started to feel like a bull session of veterans. Pace the esteem we hold such men and women, they deserve more.

 

So I guess for me the disappointment with PACIFIC is that it is a road only half-traveled.

[WarrantMafia]

Both are equally great! I liked how Pacific showed the vets coming home and the difficullties they faced coming home. Very good showing of warriors dealing with the horrors of combat (PTSD). BOTH ARE GREAT!

[bluemoon]

I like Band of Brothers. But the end of the Pacific was very moving.

[Lightning Ace]

My main research and collecting interest is the PTO because my dad was in the 5th AF in WW II but I thought the Band Of Brothers was better then the Pacific as much as I wanted the Pacific to be equal to if not better then the Band Of Brothers.

 

Mike

[JC1972]

Just saw Pacific, liked it very much. But liked BoB better. I have no ties as I did not serve in the military. I had one uncle in WWII in ETO (rear gunner on a B17) and another uncle in PTO, not sure what he did. He died, when I was very young, from some tropical disease he brought back. War in the Pacific was very brutal, seems moreso than ETO. Not that it was easy for those in ETO but like others had mentioned with the weather, terrain and the determined Japanese, PTO seemed harsher. Like my wife says, its a wonder anyone came back from the War. Now I want to read Bob Leckie's and Eugene Sledge's books. And John Basilone, he was quite a guy; a true hero. I wish when I was back in NY I knew about the annual parade they have for him. Maybe when I go back to visit family, if I can time it right, I'll go one year.

[doinworkinvans]

Pacific for me...I've always been partial to the Pacific theater dont know why but I feel like ETO always gets all the credit and I guess Im an underdog. (I know this is not true, just how I feel.) I like the " whole story " feel that you get with the Pacific. The war, the marriage and personal life, the coming home, and the demons you face stateside. Just my two cents!

Daniel

[patches]

All you have to do is look at all those marvelous historical movies from the late 30s up to what the early 80s to see that you can have real life colour, some movies that come to mind,The Four Feathers, Robin Hood, Gone With Wind, Bridge on the River Kwai, Lawrence of Arabia, Zulu, the list is long, all done in technicolor and they where great. In Saving Private Ryan- Band of Brothers they where just trying to be inovative and artsy. Take the early 80s movie DAS BOOT, it was muted in colour and we all know how great that movie is.

 

Just seen a typing error. On Das Boot It should read NOT I say Again NOT muted in color, sorry about leaving NOT out :pinch: