Uniform of Col. Robert M. Rawls

[Captainofthe7th]

I picked up this uniform and I am finding it very interesting through research. It is tailor made with a sewn ribbon rack and theater made O/S bars. On the lining it is named with Rawls' name and service number. I went through the Army register from 1943 to 1966 and also googled his name in a variety of combinations and came up with the following information:

 

He graduated from USMA in 1942, promoted to Capt. June '43, promoted to Maj. Oct. '44.

 

In WWII he served with the 305th Combat Engineers, 80th Div and received the Bronze Star for meritorious service from Aug 44-Nov 44.

 

Between the wars he went back down to Capt and in July 1951 went back up in rank to Lt. Col. He held rank of Lt. Col until April '56 when he went back to Maj. He retired with the rank of Col in 1965 and received the LoM for service between 1961 and 1965.

 

It appears for his entire career he was in the Corps of Engineers, making the crossed rifles on the uniform suspicious. I have also not found evidence of a Soldier's Medal or a second BSM or BSM w/ V. I am debating changing the Maj rank on shoulders to Lt. Col. since that is the rank he held while wearing this uniform. This Ike should have been phased out by 1956. I'm not sure why he has the PTO ribbon or a star on the American Defense. My best guess is that the extra star is just flair and the PTO ribbon is a mistake and should be ETO.

 

I am looking for more opinions on this since there are obviously a few odd things about it. All threads are cotton, 7th Div patch is original but I am not sure about the 4th Army. Thread on the ribbons is cotton as well.

 

I would like any comments or additional information if possible. If nothing else, enjoy the uniform!

 

Rob

[Captainofthe7th]

The uniform:

 

 

Rob

[Captainofthe7th]

And some photos of the man himself:

 

As a Maj. with the 305th in WWII:

 

And as a Lt.Col. in 1957 as General I.D. White's aide-de-camp. Unfortunately the image is terrible, but he is there...

 

Since this is 1957 I am definitely considering replacing the Maj. rank with Lt. Col. I would also like to switch the Infantry collar insignia for engineers.

 

Rob

[atb]

The Fourth US Army has never served overseas and should not be worn as a Former Wartime Service SSI (aka "combat patch") on the right shoulder.

[Captainofthe7th]

The Fourth US Army has never served overseas and should not be worn as a Former Wartime Service SSI (aka "combat patch") on the right shoulder.

 

That's why I don't understand why it is on there, although I have seen it done before.

 

Rob

[patches]

That's why I don't understand why it is on there, although I have seen it done before.

 

Rob

 

Right off the bat when we see the photos, something tells us something is wrong with this IKE jacket, as abt stated, 4th army would not worn as a combat patch under any circumstance, it never went overseas nor did it have elements organic to it go overseas, in which case they would no longer be a part of 4th Army. As this would be the IKE he wore when he reverted back to the Major rank in 1956 he would be wearing either his korean war patch or if he so chosed his WWII 80th Inf Div patch on the right shoulder, like in WWII 4th Army never went to korea. I hate to say it but this jacket stinks to high heaven, theres no way a combat vet of the 80th Infantry Division would mistake the Pacific campaign ribbon for a european campaign ribbon, since this rank was supoosidly made to order fore him you would think a vet especialy a high rankig one would have hey wait a minute here you made the wrong ribbon herethis not the one I stated on the order form !, you said it yourself no record of a soldiers medal and no records of a oak leaf cluster with V device has showed up for rawls, at least so far, the bronze star second award perhaps an overlooked or omited jot down in his file, soldiers medal ? ahn, ahn, a high valor decoration like this would not go unnoticed by a clerk and be omited in the records for a man who was awarded this, the highest non combat decoration in the Army. also the american defense ribbon with star in my estimation is wrong since he was a mere west point cadet in 40-41-42, I believe cadets would not be awarded any Army medals untill they where accualy commisioned officers, this being only upon graduation.

[Captainofthe7th]

Regarding 4th Army as a combat patch, check this out:

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ind...amp;hl=4th+army

This doesn't mean it is correct on either uniform, but it WAS done. Still I do not think Rawls should have it on the right arm.

 

I am willing to give the ribbons a chance because there are always so many anomalies with custom ribbon racks. Look at these posted by jim2 for example:

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/uploads//p...-1177724362.jpg

BSM ribbon is incorrect

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/uploads//p...-1177713116.jpg

These are all way out of order.

 

But this does not concretely explain the American Defense, SM, or OLC and V on the BSM. My only idea for that is that some awards given at levels lower than HQ DA might not appear in the register? I have not looked at 1946-1950 yet. The 1945 register does not list him as having received a BSM, and this should be all of the data from 1944.

 

Regarding the American Defense - it is awarded for service between Sept 39 and Dec 7, 1941 under orders to active duty for a period of 12 months or longer. Are USMA cadets under orders TO active duty?

 

I might just write to FOIA.

 

Rob

[patches]

Regarding 4th Army as a combat patch, check this out:

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ind...amp;hl=4th+army

This doesn't mean it is correct on either uniform, but it WAS done. Still I do not think Rawls should have it on the right arm.

 

I am willing to give the ribbons a chance because there are always so many anomalies with custom ribbon racks. Look at these posted by jim2 for example:

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/uploads//p...-1177724362.jpg

BSM ribbon is incorrect

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/uploads//p...-1177713116.jpg

These are all way out of order.

 

But this does not concretely explain the American Defense, SM, or OLC and V on the BSM. My only idea for that is that some awards given at levels lower than HQ DA might not appear in the register? I have not looked at 1946-1950 yet. The 1945 register does not list him as having received a BSM, and this should be all of the data from 1944.

 

Rob

 

There might be an argument for the wear of a 4th Army patch on the right shoulder to signify WWII service in the war, this would be contingent on that man being assigned to the 4th Army throughout his period of enlistment with this soldier never leaving the continental United States and wore it because he wanted to signify service in the Army during the war if he moved on to another unit I have see only two related examples of the wear on the right side of a non combat continental United States based unit of what normaly would be a combat/overseas unit, so to me this would be execptionaly rare, real rare. The question of course that begs an answer, is WHY ? why the wear of the 4th Army as a combat or more correctly a former wartime served oultfit when we know that Rawls FOUGHT in the 80th Division in WWII, I say Fought as opposed to serve, as anyone who know's their WWII unit history knows the the Blueridge division seen a great deal of heavy combat during its time in the ETO, the Division,s 305th Engineers suffered it's own calvary during the Mosel river crossings and in the early phase of the Rhineland campaign from September 1944 throught the fall up to November, Rawls was awarded his Bronze star in November during this period of heavy combat. So it stands to reason that he would be wearing his 80th Division as a combat patch or at the very least that unit which he served with during the Korean War, after all he was according to the stars on his korean service ribbon there for 8 campaign phases which adds up to approximately Two years. I also would question the JAPAN bar on the army of occupation ribbon, I just feel that this IKE that belonged to Rawls ( as his name IS in it ) had to be rebadged.

[Captainofthe7th]

Now you are getting me to look closer. There is a ghost on the inside of the sleeve - at first I thought it was where a label used to be (as it is pretty rectangular) and the tailor just used that piece of fabric for the lining there. however the edges point out a bit on the top to corners and the bottom has a little 'nipple.' I measured it versus the institute of heraldry dimensions and wouldn't you know it, it's the same as an 80th ID SSI.

 

So the 4th Army IS added.

 

Patches - I am not trying to prove you wrong or prove this jacket right. I am just playing devil's advocate so we can think out loud and come to a solution. As much as I would like this uniform to be kosher I know it isn't at this point. I contacted the seller and threw a few questions in his direction.

 

Rob

[FW12]

While the uniform may be legitimate - in that it belonged to Rawls - the ribbon bar is just not right. While beautiful, it was sloppily applied - it's not even sewn on horizontally to coincide with the pocket. The officer would probably have smoothed out the edges, too, not like this piece which is crudely machine-sewn. And finally, it's not even on a similar type of material. I just don't see a guy, who is so by-the-book with regard to his dress in that photo, wearing a uniform like this.

 

There's a guy on ebay who takes good uniforms and sews on ridiculous custom ribbon racks, I guess because he figures it looks more authentic. I hope this isn't a trend.

[patches]

Now you are getting me to look closer. There is a ghost on the inside of the sleeve - at first I thought it was where a label used to be (as it is pretty rectangular) and the tailor just used that piece of fabric for the lining there. however the edges point out a bit on the top to corners and the bottom has a little 'nipple.' I measured it versus the institute of heraldry dimensions and wouldn't you know it, it's the same as an 80th ID SSI.

 

So the 4th Army IS added.

 

Patches - I am not trying to prove you wrong or prove this jacket right. I am just playing devil's advocate so we can think out loud and come to a solution. As much as I would like this uniform to be kosher I know it isn't at this point. I contacted the seller and threw a few questions in his direction.

 

Rob

 

I hear you, you will what to leave no stone unturned, and analize why there is so many apparent errors on the ribbons, like another seemly odd one, this being that silver campaign star on the korean sevice ribbon, it appears to be just shunted on at the very end of the right side of that ribbon.

[Captainofthe7th]

Yup. Looking at it now it seems to be humped. I agree with Beau's comments on the ribbons as well. The eBay pics were just good enough where everything looked great. It's unfortunate that I have not had a chance to examine it until now. Looks like I will be contacting the seller again to see what I can do about it. He has a good reputation and sells nice stuff. Perhaps he didn't realize the problems with this one either.

 

Rob

[patches]

Yup. Looking at it now it seems to be humped. I agree with Beau's comments on the ribbons as well. The eBay pics were just good enough where everything looked great. It's unfortunate that I have not had a chance to examine it until now. Looks like I will be contacting the seller again to see what I can do about it. He has a good reputation and sells nice stuff. Perhaps he didn't realize the problems with this one either.

 

Rob

 

Yes, this plus your first observation on the wearing of Infantry officers BOS pins, not to mention the anomalous wear of the 4th Army as a combat patch, this for a known decorated WWII combat veteran with addtional service in the Korean War

[Captainofthe7th]

I think it is beyond the point of returning it now. I suppose I can part it out? Any suggestions?

 

Rob