Swivel bail helmets in the MTO

[squidres]

An interesting fact, EVERY helmet I have ever seen recovered from D-Day beaches (archeological or documented) was fixed bail. All of the swivel bail "D-Day" painted helmets crack me up.

[101combatvet]

For those that have open minds I think it is safe to say that the earliest date that swivel bail helmets could have reached England would have been the (maybe early) spring of 1944. Most historians agree that for the most part the battle for the North Atlantic and the U-boot threat was virtually gone by the spring of 1943 so shipping lanes were unobstructed to supply the Armies staging in the ETO. If you look at the units that participated in the initial days of the battle you will see that most had been in the ETO for some time.

 

29th - Oct 1942

4th - Jan 1944

1st - Nov 1942

 

Most if not all of the men in these divisions had fixed bail helmets because they had been supplied prior to any swivel bails reaching the ETO. Considering the number of helmets that are lost in training prior to the invasion it is not likely that many would have been replaced at all. If replacements drew their TA-50 in England it seems that some may have been issued the swivel bail. Replacements that beefed up the divisions prior to the invasion and ones that replaced the casualties in the beginning weeks which were relatively small numbers could have been issued swivel bails. If you do the math.... number of men that participated in the first month of the invasion vs. the number of deaths/casualties that had helmets that were not recovered off the battlefield vs. helmets that were battlefield finds we are talking a very low number and it makes sense that most would have been the majority. In an Army that has always been known to supply the best and latest equipment to its troops it would make perfect sense that the swivel bail would have logistically been in England in some numbers prior to the D-Day invasion. The recovery of fixed bail helmets on the battlefield is not conclusive evidence that swivel bails were not used in Normandy.

[squidres]

I agree with your math and discussion. There may have been some fixed bales at Normandy, but the preponderance of supposed "D-Day" helmets turning up on the market are swivel bail. My point was simply to re-warn collectors to watch out (like anyone needs that these days) since I have never seen a documented swivel bail to Normandy, and believe me through numerous trips, friendships with locals, and talks to the museum folks over there, I have not been able to find any evidence of swivel bales.

[101combatvet]

By mid 1944 an Infantry Division had a total personnel strength of 14,253 men. Do you really think that the same type helmet net was issued to all of them?

 

Robert,

 

Is the net original to the helmet? The reason that I ask is that it's different than the nets the 79th used while in Normandy.

See here: http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ind...?showtopic=1894

 

Thanks,

Bryan

[bfryar44]

By mid 1944 an Infantry Division had a total personnel strength of 14,253 men. Do you really think that the same type helmet net was issued to all of them?

 

 

Actually, the 79th did use other types of nets but I've never found any evidence that the they used cut up "vehicle" nets. I asked the question because I would like to find out more about this helmet/net and it's history, etc.. This is not to say they didn't use them there just isn't any evidence to date.

[tweedie]

I agree with your math and discussion. There may have been some fixed bales at Normandy, but the preponderance of supposed "D-Day" helmets turning up on the market are swivel bail. My point was simply to re-warn collectors to watch out (like anyone needs that these days) since I have never seen a documented swivel bail to Normandy, and believe me through numerous trips, friendships with locals, and talks to the museum folks over there, I have not been able to find any evidence of swivel bales.

 

Hi,

Swivel bales are to be considered as exceptions during the battle of Normandy, but they were used there fo sure.

Tweedie