Jump to content

Staff sergeant deletion in 1948


Recommended Posts

....when did they revert back to 3 stripe Sgt and when did SSGT make its return? 1956?

1958

~ In Memory Of ~
Donald Earl Boston, IC3 - KILO PLT, SEAL TEAM ONE, TF 116, USNAVFORV - KIA 07 April 1967, Vietnam
David Rolland Jackson, CWO - 71ST AHC, 14TH AVN BN
, 16TH AVN GROUP, AMERICAL - KIA 25 September 1969, Vietnam

donation2019.gifdonation2020.gif

donation2017.gifdonation2018.gif

donation2014.gifdonation2015.gifdonation2016.gif

donation2010.gifdonation2011.gifdonation2012.gifdonation2013.gif

Link to post
Share on other sites

The 3 stripe chevron was dropped and the SSGT remained in use. The chevrons were in use from 1948 until FEB, 1951 but you can see photos of them in use after that date.

 

 

This drawing is titled Female Chevrons but if you read the details and the deleted info you can see the BLUE / GOLD chevron info was changed to the WAC colors when the men's chevrons were deleted.

 

post-5-1320872259.jpg

post-5-1320872270.jpg

post-5-1320872282.jpg

post-5-1320872291.jpg

post-5-1320872300.jpg

 

This is a set I photographed several years ago when I was selling them on Ebay. The BLUE on GOLD PFC is missing but otherwise a complete set.

post-5-1320872310.jpg

 

 

post-5-1320872320.jpg

donation2007.gifdonation2008.gifdonation2009.gifdonation2010.gif

donation2011.gifdonation2012.gifdonation2013.gifdonation2014.gif

PLEASE NOTE: THIS COMMUNITY MEMBER, SADLY, HAS PASSED AWAY

Link to post
Share on other sites

And just to elaborate a little, when E-8 and E-9 were authorized in 1958 the Army bumped master sergeant up from E-7 to E-8, SFC from E-6 to 7, and brought back SSG at E-6, so E-5 was freed up for the three stripe buck sergeant. Nobody was made to lose a stripe, BTW, for instance E-7s before the changeover were allowed by regulations to wear their three rockers for many years.

 

Justin B.

donation2010.gif

donation2011.gifdonation2012.gifdonation2013.gif

donation2014.gifdonation2015.gifdonation2016.gif

donation2018.gifdonation2019.gifdonation2020.gif

Link to post
Share on other sites
The 3 stripe chevron was dropped and the SSGT remained in use. The chevrons were in use from 1948 until FEB, 1951....

 

The SSGT was re-titled "SGT". The 2"-wide combat and non-combat chevrons were changed back to 3"-wide (initially 3-1/8") OD on dark blue for male soldiers in '51, but the 3-stripe SGT didn't come back until '58.

~ In Memory Of ~
Donald Earl Boston, IC3 - KILO PLT, SEAL TEAM ONE, TF 116, USNAVFORV - KIA 07 April 1967, Vietnam
David Rolland Jackson, CWO - 71ST AHC, 14TH AVN BN
, 16TH AVN GROUP, AMERICAL - KIA 25 September 1969, Vietnam

donation2019.gifdonation2020.gif

donation2017.gifdonation2018.gif

donation2014.gifdonation2015.gifdonation2016.gif

donation2010.gifdonation2011.gifdonation2012.gifdonation2013.gif

Link to post
Share on other sites
The 3 stripe chevron was dropped and the SSGT remained in use. The chevrons were in use from 1948 until FEB, 1951 but you can see photos of them in use after that date.

This drawing is titled Female Chevrons but if you read the details and the deleted info you can see the BLUE / GOLD chevron info was changed to the WAC colors when the men's chevrons were deleted.

 

post-5-1320872259.jpg

post-5-1320872270.jpg

post-5-1320872282.jpg

post-5-1320872291.jpg

post-5-1320872300.jpg

 

This is a set I photographed several years ago when I was selling them on Ebay. The BLUE on GOLD PFC is missing but otherwise a complete set.

post-5-1320872310.jpg

post-5-1320872320.jpg

 

Indeed, I have loads of the official National Guardsman Magazines from the 50s, these 1948 types could still be seen being worn by SOME men as late as the mid 50s, both on Ikes and khaki shirts as well as fatiques and field jackets.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Ahhh, 1958. Big changes that year, I think that was the same time frame that the OD uniforms fianlly gave way to the AG44 if im not mistaken. I would guess then that change in uniform went hand in hand with reverting back to the "traditional" ranks that got messed with in 1948.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Ahhh, 1958. Big changes that year, I think that was the same time frame that the OD uniforms fianlly gave way to the AG44 if im not mistaken. I would guess then that change in uniform went hand in hand with reverting back to the "traditional" ranks that got messed with in 1948.

 

This and more, the change from ODs and Brown Boots filled the men who where of the Army, Officer and Enlistedmen alike with doom and gloom about the future of the Army.

Link to post
Share on other sites
This and more, the change from ODs and Brown Boots filled the men who where of the Army, Officer and Enlistedmen alike with doom and gloom about the future of the Army.

 

I guess thats why you see a few diehards in pics from 58-60 period that held on to thier M50 Ikes..use the wear out period to full advantage ;)

 

I really dont mind the looks of the first AG44s though.

Link to post
Share on other sites
The 3 stripe chevron was dropped and the SSGT remained in use. The chevrons were in use from 1948 until FEB, 1951 but you can see photos of them in use after that date.

This drawing is titled Female Chevrons but if you read the details and the deleted info you can see the BLUE / GOLD chevron info was changed to the WAC colors when the men's chevrons were deleted.

 

 

post-5-1320872270.jpg

Why is the three stripes of the former buck Sergeant rank listed as a Corporal? Was there a plan to have two different grades of Corporal like E-1 and E-2 Privates?

Link to post
Share on other sites
Why is the three stripes of the former buck Sergeant rank listed as a Corporal? Was there a plan to have two different grades of Corporal like E-1 and E-2 Privates?

Not sure what that means. The date of the cancellation notation under it looks like 1946 to me. Seems odd for a change that took place in '48. Maybe craig-pickrall has some more input on the drawing.... ??

~ In Memory Of ~
Donald Earl Boston, IC3 - KILO PLT, SEAL TEAM ONE, TF 116, USNAVFORV - KIA 07 April 1967, Vietnam
David Rolland Jackson, CWO - 71ST AHC, 14TH AVN BN
, 16TH AVN GROUP, AMERICAL - KIA 25 September 1969, Vietnam

donation2019.gifdonation2020.gif

donation2017.gifdonation2018.gif

donation2014.gifdonation2015.gifdonation2016.gif

donation2010.gifdonation2011.gifdonation2012.gifdonation2013.gif

Link to post
Share on other sites
What followed the re-introduction of the three-stripe insignia for sergeant was particularly bizarre. Those who had been promoted to E5 prior to the rank change continued to wear three stripes and a rocker; those promoted afterwards wore only three stripes--but both were the same rank.

So after the the re-introduction of the three-stripe insignia for sergeant, did you have both E-5's and E-6's simultaneously wearing the three stripes and a rocker insignia? How could you tell the difference?

Link to post
Share on other sites

The man pictured in my avatar reenlisted in 1948 before the change at his WWII rank of Staff Sergeant. His paperwork from the time of the change until '51 refers to him as "Sergeant, formerly Staff Sergeant". He wore three stripes with a rocker for the entire period, and in '51 he became a Staff Sergeant again. Must have been a very confusing time.

~ In Memory Of ~
Donald Earl Boston, IC3 - KILO PLT, SEAL TEAM ONE, TF 116, USNAVFORV - KIA 07 April 1967, Vietnam
David Rolland Jackson, CWO - 71ST AHC, 14TH AVN BN
, 16TH AVN GROUP, AMERICAL - KIA 25 September 1969, Vietnam

donation2019.gifdonation2020.gif

donation2017.gifdonation2018.gif

donation2014.gifdonation2015.gifdonation2016.gif

donation2010.gifdonation2011.gifdonation2012.gifdonation2013.gif

Link to post
Share on other sites
So after the the re-introduction of the three-stripe insignia for sergeant, did you have both E-5's and E-6's simultaneously wearing the three stripes and a rocker insignia? How could you tell the difference?

 

I don't think you could. Ah, the army, always making things simple and easy for the enlistedman. :lol:

Whoever had the idea in 1948 to eliminate 3-stripe sergeant's rank should be smacked. So if you were a SSG then reverted to SGT, you could continue to wear your rocker until you got promoted back to SSG at which time you did not gain a stripe? Good plan.

donation2011.gifdonation2012.gifdonation2013.gif


donation2014.gifdonation2015.gifdonation2016.gif


donation2017.gifdonation2018.gifdonation2019.gif

Link to post
Share on other sites
Why is the three stripes of the former buck Sergeant rank listed as a Corporal? Was there a plan to have two different grades of Corporal like E-1 and E-2 Privates?

 

There were a few different schemes after WW2 to boost sergeant up from the wartime grade of E-4 (though not actually numbed that way till 1949). One scheme looked like this:

 

40s_nco_plan-1.jpg

 

That was obviously a break from tradition, and according to Ernest Fisher, Guardians of the Republic: A History of the Noncommissioned Officer Corps of the U.S. Army CSA General Omar Bradley told his staff to think up a better name than "Sergeant Second Class." Eventually they went with the 1948 system, eliminating three stripes and bumping buck sergeant up to a rocker, but keeping the established corporal's two stripes.

 

So after the the re-introduction of the three-stripe insignia for sergeant, did you have both E-5's and E-6's simultaneously wearing the three stripes and a rocker insignia? How could you tell the difference?

 

E-5 through E-7 were allowed to wear their old "next higher" stripes for ten years, 1958 to '68. I imagine it could be pretty confusing. If you were under the old plan, you could be promoted from E-6 to E-7, say, and get new pay and a new grade title but not change stripes.

 

--Justin B.

post-3982-1321032529.jpg

donation2010.gif

donation2011.gifdonation2012.gifdonation2013.gif

donation2014.gifdonation2015.gifdonation2016.gif

donation2018.gifdonation2019.gifdonation2020.gif

Link to post
Share on other sites
So after the the re-introduction of the three-stripe insignia for sergeant, did you have both E-5's and E-6's simultaneously wearing the three stripes and a rocker insignia? How could you tell the difference?

 

Yes, SSGs promoted after '58 wore three stripes and a rocker, and E5s who had made their rank before the change wore three stripes and a rocker until they were promoted...at which time they still wore three stripes and a rocker. To make things even more confusing, a Sergeant First Class could be either an E6 or and E7, and a Master Sergeant either an E7 or an E8, depending on if they had made their rank before or after the changes.

 

How could you tell the difference? You couldn't, without asking them--not a good idea for a young recruit. For years soldiers, when filling out forms, put both their rank and pay grade; I imagine this habit began in that era.

Link to post
Share on other sites
I guess thats why you see a few diehards in pics from 58-60 period that held on to thier M50 Ikes..use the wear out period to full advantage ;)

 

A soldier who entered the army in the fall of '58 told me he was issued one set of greens, and one set of ODs. I imagine this was to use up stocks on hand. He referred to the OD Eisenhower jacket uniform as his 'guard' uniform, which leads me to think that either the green or OD uniform was specified for particular functions, to insure uniformity.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry about post #16, I edited to add the chart and correct myself: Not only the insignia but the titles could be used till 1968. Then the "edit" feature was gone even though it kept the new attachment. The chart is from The Officer's Guide, 30th edition (1965).

 

Justin B.

donation2010.gif

donation2011.gifdonation2012.gifdonation2013.gif

donation2014.gifdonation2015.gifdonation2016.gif

donation2018.gifdonation2019.gifdonation2020.gif

Link to post
Share on other sites
Sorry about post #16, I edited to add the chart and correct myself: Not only the insignia but the titles could be used till 1968. Then the "edit" feature was gone even though it kept the new attachment. The chart is from The Officer's Guide, 30th edition (1965).

 

Justin B.

I assume that the creation of the single stripe and rocker patch for Private First Class E-3 in May 1968 was another attempt to correct the problem created by the previous rank overhauls that left Private E-1 and Private E-2 indistinguishable with each having no stripe at all. My father went in to the Army in June 1967 and on many of his early orders, the lowest ranks are distinguished as PV1 and PV2 although from a uniform standpoint I guess there was no distinction. In other words, between 1958 and 1968, it took two promotions in the Army before you got your first stripe unlike the other three branches where you at least got a stripe on promotion to E-2 and in the Navy started out with one as an E-1.

Link to post
Share on other sites

...

There were a few different schemes after WW2 to boost sergeant up from the wartime grade of E-4.... One scheme looked like this....

 

Thanks, Justin B. .... you answered the question and identified yet another reference book I need to buy! I learn something every day around here! :thumbsup:

~ In Memory Of ~
Donald Earl Boston, IC3 - KILO PLT, SEAL TEAM ONE, TF 116, USNAVFORV - KIA 07 April 1967, Vietnam
David Rolland Jackson, CWO - 71ST AHC, 14TH AVN BN
, 16TH AVN GROUP, AMERICAL - KIA 25 September 1969, Vietnam

donation2019.gifdonation2020.gif

donation2017.gifdonation2018.gif

donation2014.gifdonation2015.gifdonation2016.gif

donation2010.gifdonation2011.gifdonation2012.gifdonation2013.gif

Link to post
Share on other sites
I assume that the creation of the single stripe and rocker patch for Private First Class E-3 in May 1968 was another attempt to correct the problem created by the previous rank overhauls that left Private E-1 and Private E-2 indistinguishable with each having no stripe at all. My father went in to the Army in June 1967 and on many of his early orders, the lowest ranks are distinguished as PV1 and PV2 although from a uniform standpoint I guess there was no distinction. In other words, between 1958 and 1968, it took two promotions in the Army before you got your first stripe unlike the other three branches where you at least got a stripe on promotion to E-2 and in the Navy started out with one as an E-1.

 

Correct, But as someone who experienced it, I don't see the lack of an insignia for Pvts E1 and E2 as any big thing...in a TO&E unit there was no discernable distinction in the way any grade of private was treated. At the time, I recall thinking it silly that navy E1s had any insignia of rank.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.