CNY Militaria Posted October 27, 2011 Share #1 Posted October 27, 2011 I have had this in my collection for a few years now and always wondered about it. Each star is sewn on individually on the collars, and the nametape has been removed at some point. It has a 3rd AD patch and a US Army tape. No markings or tags of any kind are in it, it looks custom made. What do you think? Thanks, Justin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kammo-man Posted October 27, 2011 Share #2 Posted October 27, 2011 Seriously ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KurtA Posted October 27, 2011 Share #3 Posted October 27, 2011 This Assistant Divisional Commander of the 3rd Armored Division probably didn't blend in too well with the native foilage at West Germany's Fulda Gap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vintageproductions Posted October 27, 2011 Share #4 Posted October 27, 2011 civilian piece of tiger stripe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNY Militaria Posted October 27, 2011 Author Share #5 Posted October 27, 2011 Seriously ? Yes, Seriously. I am sorry to bother you with the question. Vintageproductions--thank you for the answer and information, this is what I was looking for. Justin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjones5452 Posted October 28, 2011 Share #6 Posted October 28, 2011 I bought a set like these out of Shotgun News back in the 80s from a place called Sherwood Distributors in California. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nack Posted October 28, 2011 Share #7 Posted October 28, 2011 I have nothing substantive to add, but I feel like I need to make one comment. LOTS of people are pretty knowledgeable as to WWII stuff. There are lots and lots of books, lots and lots of vets to talk to, and things are often clearly marked or of such construction that once can pretty easily sort good from bad, period from modern. On the other hand, the number of people who have that same level of knowledge re: VN and later stuff, particularly cammo material, is far less. There are far fewer references, seemingly less pieces about, and apparently less vets with personal knowledge of this stuff. Cammo patterns are varied, and it is not an easy field of collecting. Plus there is a whole vernacular that one needs to learn to talk about this stuff ("silver" tigerstripes, "gold" tigerstripes, etc). I have no dog in this fight. I have never talked to Justin. I've never dealt with him. But I would have asked the same question he did, and IMHO, his question is in line with what most of us WWII-era collectors would have asked. I have seen similar questions asked in the past, and often I get the feeling that the VN-collecting crowd has no tolerance for people who are not experts in this field. I got that vibe when reading this thread as well. I personally do not like that. Maybe we ought all to be a bit more tolerant of questions from people who are asking questions re: material that is outside their sphere of expertise. [exit soapbox] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vintageproductions Posted October 28, 2011 Share #8 Posted October 28, 2011 While I can understand your points you have made, I do not agree with the statement about there not being enough information on Vietnam camo. In this forum alone there are two seperate pinned topics about tiger stripes. The information provided in those two sections is better then any book that has ever, or will ever be published. Then you can add the Beo Gam / Leopard pattern pinned thread also. All this information is readily available to anyone who wants to to take the time and read these amazing threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nack Posted October 28, 2011 Share #9 Posted October 28, 2011 While I can understand your points you have made, I do not agree with the statement about there not being enough information on Vietnam camo.In this forum alone there are two seperate pinned topics about tiger stripes. The information provided in those two sections is better then any book that has ever, or will ever be published. Then you can add the Beo Gam / Leopard pattern pinned thread also. All this information is readily available to anyone who wants to to take the time and read these amazing threads. You do make an interesting point. The collective knowledge available re: tiger stripes seems to be web-based, rather than in print. I think we can agree that hard-copy references for VN material, and tiger-stripe uniforms specifically, is vey small compared to the WWII material. While the issue of whether one format is more trustwothy than another is an interesting question -- which wee need not get into now -- I think one thing is not really in dispute: overall, the references available for VN material, including tiger stripes, whether web-based or in print, are much fewer than WWII-era (and perhaps WWI and Civil War as well). Given that, and the fact that that a lot of the cammo in VN was apparently used in a less-than-officical capacity, and/or used in a not-particularly-uniform fashion, VN collectors should realize that novices in this area are going to have some confusion, and hence, questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwb123 Posted October 28, 2011 Share #10 Posted October 28, 2011 It is civilian camo, but those insignia are sure sewn on very nicely. There is nothing to say that the good general didn't wear this as a whim. General officers at one time were allowed to design their own uniform. I'm not sure if that is true today. But I would hesitate to dismiss this one outright. As far as the camo not fitting in to Germany.... who can account for personal taste? The general may have seen Tigers in his younger days and always wanted a set. When these came out, there were not too many options available, not like today. It would be interesting to see if this shows up in any photos. I would look through the 1980's to the 1990's for an Assistant Division Commander of the 3rd Armored. And one last thought... if someone was going to drum up a fake, patched Tiger Stripe Shirt, they would have used Vietnam era patches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kammo-man Posted October 28, 2011 Share #11 Posted October 28, 2011 We all bought SOF in the 80s ........... This shirt was for sale in nearly every issue . Did the shirt come directly from the original owner ? THAT IS THE QUESTION . Not is it Nam tiger .......as every military collector who has been active during the last 30 years should know . Nack . please look at the Tiger thread .....its there for all to see. and its a lot more complex than ANYTHING ever written on WW2 camouflage uniforms. Justin. I was NOT having a go ..rather .....my comment was a "come on .......you cannot be Serious"? ....just like a famous tennis star from the 70s . owen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doyler Posted October 28, 2011 Share #12 Posted October 28, 2011 One thing I noticed is there is some genuine fading compared to the area where the name tape was.So who ever wore it or mae it up the patches have been there for a while. But definately a civilian shirt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VMI88 Posted October 28, 2011 Share #13 Posted October 28, 2011 Justin, For what it's worth, back in the early 80s I purchased a military grouping that included a set of commercial tiger stripes that appear to be this same pattern, with name and US Army tapes sewn on. I think there might be rank on the collar as well but I'll have to pull them out of storage to be sure. The odd thing is that there was an OG-107 uniform made up with the same nametag which made me wonder if the tiger set might not have seen some kind of semi-official use. Not in Vietnam, of course, but sometime after. I'll see if I can find them and get some photos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattS Posted October 28, 2011 Share #14 Posted October 28, 2011 As has been said, it's a civilian pattern of tiger. I have a set straight from a vet who bought and wore them in the early 1980s when he was playing OPFOR. Maybe this BG commanded an OPFOR detachment in Europe and locally authorized this pattern for wear by his 'bad guys'. In the early 90s, I bought East German surplus uniforms for our scouts to wear when we did OPFOR which were definitely not US Army issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNY Militaria Posted October 28, 2011 Author Share #15 Posted October 28, 2011 Good info folks! Another member used to own this and once wrote to 3rd AD Assistant Division Commanders, but did not receive many responses IIRC. OPFOR sounds like an interesting idea, and perhaps another usewas as a social event uniform, silimar to the joke party suits of the USAF? The nametape had been present a long time, but unfortunatelt no imprints of a name can be detected. Thanks, Justin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawkdriver Posted October 28, 2011 Share #16 Posted October 28, 2011 Don't rule out Panama, Honduras and those other "jungle" areas of the world. You have a BG going south, who is going to say anything if he is wearing those in the Jungles. We have gone MILES out of our way to validate the one single incidence of someone wearing a piece of camo in Vietnam, which many of those are civilian purchase, unauthorized prototype used, or sew shop produced. So, why would it be out of the realms for a high ranking officer going to Panama for a short stint to show up with this? Gotta remember, we geeks on this forum are the only ones that care what is stamped or sewn inside the collar. I'm doubtful that anyone would have the guts to walk up to the Gen-gen and say, "Hey boss!, you know you have a knock off uniform on???" I currently have a civilian made ACU patrol cap that I took the guts out of it so I can have a hot weather cap instead of that bulky hot thing that is issued. In four months, not a single person has said a single thing and those that see it gutted out ask if I could do the same thing for them. Would love to see the discussion on this board in 30 years when one of you find my hat in a surplus store. "That's civilian, it's fake, wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNY Militaria Posted October 28, 2011 Author Share #17 Posted October 28, 2011 Did the shirt come directly from the original owner ? THAT IS THE QUESTION . I purchased it from another forum member who had it a number of years who had purchased it from a GO collector/member on the forum who had it in his collection for a while. I dont remember where he got it from (thrift store comes to mind, but I'm not certain), but I don't think it was a vet purchase. Justin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doyler Posted October 28, 2011 Share #18 Posted October 28, 2011 As has been said, it's a civilian pattern of tiger. I have a set straight from a vet who bought and wore them in the early 1980s when he was playing OPFOR. Maybe this BG commanded an OPFOR detachment in Europe and locally authorized this pattern for wear by his 'bad guys'. In the early 90s, I bought East German surplus uniforms for our scouts to wear when we did OPFOR which were definitely not US Army issue. Matt I had thought that too. Also had thought of the panama connection.Had a friend who did some time there as a guard for a General in the early 80s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VolunteerArmoury Posted October 28, 2011 Share #19 Posted October 28, 2011 I had a buddy that was my Sr Drill while I was a Drill up on Fort Knox a few years ago who mentioned having used tiger stripes as well as all black BDUs in the 80s while he was with the 2nd ID's LRS. He showed me photos of all sorts of commercial uniforms being worn so I'd never say never. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USMCRECON Posted October 28, 2011 Share #20 Posted October 28, 2011 I had a buddy that was my Sr Drill while I was a Drill up on Fort Knox a few years ago who mentioned having used tiger stripes as well as all black BDUs in the 80s while he was with the 2nd ID's LRS. He showed me photos of all sorts of commercial uniforms being worn so I'd never say never. Nor would I. When we went to Egypt in 1982, we were only authorized flight suits but several of us acquired commercially made utility uniforms to wear when performing ground duties and our CO never made a fuss about it. We interfaced frequently with the deployed RDF Commander and his staff frequently and he never mentioned it to our CO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kammo-man Posted October 29, 2011 Share #21 Posted October 29, 2011 Sounds like this shirt is a complete DUD . owen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VMI88 Posted October 29, 2011 Share #22 Posted October 29, 2011 Sounds like this shirt is a complete DUD . owen Then why waste your time commenting on it (multiple times)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nkomo Posted October 29, 2011 Share #23 Posted October 29, 2011 I am suprised that no one has mentioned the shoulder straps. That is usually indicative of a foreign military uniform. :think: Does anyone know if the commercial jackets that were sold in Soldier of Fortune had these straps on the shoulder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawkdriver Posted October 29, 2011 Share #24 Posted October 29, 2011 Sounds like this shirt is a complete DUD . owen How have you come to this conclusion? We have discussed that it is obviously a civilian purchase shirt, but was potentially drafted into military use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbertson Posted October 29, 2011 Share #25 Posted October 29, 2011 Could be Ollie ordered up a truckload to send out at one time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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