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Show your Market Garden troopers/displays!


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Greg Sebring

horus,

 

You're a good sport about it. I am not a collector but do have considerable amount of items my dad brought back with him. I consider myself a "preserver". I am working on putting everything in a specific room for my personal enjoyment and anyone else I can coax into to see it. I have posted many pictures of this and other web sites. From day one I was intimidated by the expertise exhibited by many collectors and always approached posting any photos as "any comments appreciated". I was given lots of good constructive advice. My eyes were opened to the fact that there is the regulation way, the practical way, and the soldiers personal preference of wearing almost anything. You have the start of a very nice display and with a few "tweaks", you will be as historically correct as you can be.

 

BTW, welcome to the forum

 

thumbsup.gif

 

Greg

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Horus:

 

I still hope you continue to share your other displays. I am sorry that this grouping has come into question. We all learn. I learned the hard way with two Vietnam Tigerstripe jackets. Granted, my expenditure for those unworthy items was much lower than the expenditure related to items alleged to be W.W.II airborne pieces. If I were you, I would go back to the dealer. I am sure not all of the items are wrong, but you may need additional input from others and you should also do more research. The more informed you are the better off you will be in your collecting.

 

Best of luck,

 

Sgt. Rock

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Thanks, it's nice to read some positive comments. I do not refute the expertise of knowledge out there, but comments such as 'if I can't accept criticism, I shouldn't post', especially as this IS my first post, isn't what I had expected to read. Im not going to see a doctor, only to have a limb chopped off without anaesthetic now, am I?

'Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori', as they say in historic military circles.

'Obviously, I have a lot to learn', but that's why i decided to check out this forum in the first place. I had just hoped it would have been a bit friendlier. Perhaps this would seem a bit hypersensitive, but I don't have a computer at home, nor do I have a phone line, for that matter, as i travel around a lot, and, although my library is quite extensive, I do not have the time or inclination to trawl websites for 'moody gear', in case mine's not right. Unfortunately, in my world, I have to place trust in 'dealers', as I dont have the kind of access afforded to most people nowadays. It took me two days of travelling to and fro from the public library just to find out the patch was wrong. And two trips today just to post these.

Anyhow, i digress. All I am asking is 'if you're gonna perform surgery, apply some anaesthetic', that's all. As for the info, that's great, I can lick my own wounds, and carry on, though this time with some reserve.

As an aside, the reason behind my mannequin came from my grandfather, on my mother's side, who was one of the rare British RAMC medics who worked alongside the 101st during Market Garden, the mannequin was part of a small vignette depicting a typical scene.

Gotta go now, my time's run out. All the best.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Horus, I can't remember how many times I saw or read on one of these forums about an item like I have as being a reproduction only to go back and look my items over again. Most of the the time they were okay, but once in awhile it turns out not so, or at least it's questionable. All part of the collecting experience. I am familar with that bad feeling in the gut when you find out an item is not correct, especially after paying out good money for it. Keep reading these forums and learning.

PS, I've also had the same regrettable experience of posting an item as original like you did, only to have it exposed as a repro or not correct. Ray

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  • 2 months later...

I too am working on a Market Garden Display in memory of a friend who jumped into Holland. Right now its dressed with rep 43 coat-Repo pants and repo first aid packet- No helmet everything else OK period items. I have a real 43 Jacket and rigger altered 43 Pants. The son of the guy is going to loan my one of his dads 101st Patchs(He has a white tongued but I won't borrow that).

I have the flag that I bought from a dealer as original but thats up to debate. As soon as its redressed I will post it here and see how many knocks I take on it but will learn from it. I will probaby have to buy repo chin straps for my fix bail helmet because of the cost of a real one. Unless I get lucky and stumble across one. Just hang in there and we all get better.

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A huge benefit to forums and discussion groups is the ability to post images of items before you commit to purchase them. When in doubt, always ask for 2nd, 3rd, 4th opinions!

 

There are certain items I've passed on for years before I had the experience and confidence to know what I was looking at. Where there is serious money being thrown around, there will be a market for fakes or doctored items, especially WWII Airborne.

 

Horus, getting burned stings. Trust me I know. But if you really don't have easy access to the internet, or time to build a network of experienced collectors to seek advice from, I would seriously reconsider your level of commitment to this hobby. It sounds like you are asking for more problems. It was already mentioned, but if the dealer(s) sold you those items (101st patch, Rigger M43s, etc) under the pretense of being WWII, I would be contacting them.

 

My heart goes out to you. I know what it's like to be hot and heavy into something and want to own it immediately.

 

Example: I am very interested in American Civil War and Plains Indian bead and quill work, but I don't anticipate buying a single item until I have met more collectors, viewed their collections, read more books, viewed more exhibits, and processed everything into a confident understanding. Fear of buying a non-legit item can be a strong tool in maintaining self control.

 

---Chris

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Seeing this topic popped back to the top, I have revamped my Market Garden guy and would like to "show" him off a bit. Hope everyone enjoys. paul

 

post-512-1186191714.jpg

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The only thing that is not real on the mannequin is the Thompson SMG and the smoke grenade. All the other items are real. The 43 pants are the early style with the twill tape, and not the folded over reinforcing canvas leg ties. THanks for the great comments. Paul

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The only thing that is not real on the mannequin is the Thompson SMG and the smoke grenade. All the other items are real. The 43 pants are the early style with the twill tape, and not the folded over reinforcing canvas leg ties. THanks for the great comments. Paul

 

Paul,

I didn't realize that there were early and late rigger M43 pants. I thought the differing materials on the leg ties had to do with different divisions.

 

M43 pants have been on my want list, but I haven't seen a pair for sale that I was comfortable with. Congratulations on finding a pair!

 

---Chris

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  • 11 months later...

Where has this tread been all my life!! my goodness ! :love: :love: :love: :love: :love:

 

Baker I would like to here about that helmet! real deal?

 

thanks!

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I have seen Pauls (Baker502) manequin display here in person and it is amazing took him a while with a lot of patience to get all the real stuff. The pants are the real deal and what a score.....I remember when he called me excited he had got them. Great job Paul......I have nothing but envy..... w00t.gif

David

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Justin,

I have no reason to believe anything other than good on the helmet. It is not a D-bail but a fixed bail with para straps. I know there has been great debate over the use of thse helmets. It originated in Holland and was purchased from a person who, and I quote " I wish I would have never sold that helmet, if you ever get rid of it sell it back to me" It is a 1st battalion 502nd helmet, and it screams real. Paul

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Just a quick one guys, is it accurate enough to have mostly khaki wegear on a market garden era trooper, or should it be a bit, or mostly OD? I know as the war went on, alot of troopers wanted the new stuff which was the darker OD shade, but is it accurate to see all khaki?

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Yes you will see both used and most of the time used together as the GI's weren't too fashion concered as most reenactors are now a days. How do I know this as I am one of those reenactors.... lmao

David

DSCF1485.jpg

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When marshalling for a major airborne op like Normandy, Holland or Varsity, a major effort was made to ensure all equipment, including LBE and personal items were fully servicable. In general, a majority of web items were purpose-issued NEW AND not signed for by the individual troops. The majority of M42 jump suits used in Normandy were combat-servicable garments, previous issued/used, turned in, and then inspected and repaired as necessary eithere within the Divisions or at a supporting depot. And, for D-Day, they were sprayed with the chemical protective goo. THEN they were issued.

 

Conversely, AFTER each such major op, the airborne troops turned in virtually everything they wore, and once showered, shaved and hair-cut, they got in line for a fresh issue -- underwear, sox, wool shirt, trous, belt, overseas cap, basic rank and unit insignia. If returning to the cantonment area they left from, their A and B Bags were (in theory) waiting for them, containing their "better dress' M42s, jump boots, etc. If going to a new home, teh bags (in theory) were brought forward to them.

 

It was in this situation that the 82nd and 101st, back in the UK, received the M1943 family of uniforms and gear. They were the first ETO Divs to receive it (in Italy/MTO, the M43 stuff was issued to the 3rd ID and various attached units in Jan 1944). The 17th Abn Div was issued M43 gear when leaving the ZI and arrived in the ETO fully-M43.

 

The mixture of tan, green and two-tone LBE and web gear was not organized "on color lines". Much LBE you see in pix is pretty surely CS stuff, issued again and again until un-usable. Only when dressing up for parades would anyone at the unit level CARE about various colors being mixed. And, at the point of manufacture, the contractors used whatever color of pieces and components were handy, and that could change from day to day. The tan pieces were just fine as long as they lasted.

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  • 1 year later...
post-933-1179320381.jpg

Here is a shot of the trousers. I know, the first thing you're going to say, 'ooh, the pocket flaps are not slanted...'.

 

Maybe upsetting for purely W.W.2 collectors, but rest assured that some of us would LOVE a pair of those trousers in our collections. It's far from being the first time that a pair has been bought as 'W.W.2 period' either, two of the last three pairs I've heard of being for sale were sold/bought as such, unfortunately with a price-tag to match. If I recall correctly there was a discussion of this pattern and it's varients on here somewhere. So I'd say don't be down-hearted, you still have something pretty darn rare and unique!

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why is the M-3 knife hanging from the musett bag strap? In real life I doubt they would have down this, as during combat situations they would have dropped their packs? Just my observations Paul

Hello Paul,

 

This manner of the knife attaching may seem to be strange none the less it is very popular in armed forces, mainly today, but not only. See below at US WWII para (Southern France invasion) who has his M3 attached upside down.

 

Best regards

 

Greg

post-75-1259234359.jpg

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Hi Horus, thanks for adding your post to the site, there's not one person on here that can say they have never made a mistake with something they bought, or displayed, or misidentified.

 

So withdraw, regroup and re-attack, come back stronger.

 

Cheers ( Lewis )

Very well written. Ken wrote it like experienced wise guru. The M1943 parachutist trousers, as a non-standard element, are not documented as good as M1942 ones. Long awaited "Orange is the Color of the Day" book will verify soon not a few "Market Garden displays".

 

Best regards

 

Greg

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This thread needs more posts! Was just moving some stuff around today in my spare room and thought i'd throw this together. Forgot a few things, binoculars, map case, some camo chute, but i was in a rush. Everything is real bar the trousers and boots, brassard, and the helmet.

Things of note.

M43 Jacket is ID'd to a 501st trooper

Parachute garrison cap is ID'd to a PFC 502ndman, KIA in sept 44

Pistol holster is Id'd to 'Stan' :P

Compass pouch was found in Belgium

Flag brassard is from the holland scenes in Band of Brothers

Enjoy

post-3398-1259562916.jpg

 

post-3398-1259562928.jpg

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