Artifact attributed to Captain Louis Cukela USMC

[teufelhunde.ret]

... a leep of faith :think:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/120791264018?ssPag...984.m1438.l2649

 

From the sellers description: Antique Tientsin Silver picture FRAME engraved Kukela WWI WWII U.S.Marine Cukela 2 time Medal of Honor recipient Louis Kukela hallmarked

 

 

OFFERED FOR AUCTION IS THIS BEAUTIFUL ONE-OF-A-KIND DATED 1928 ANTIQUE SOLID SILVER PERSONAL PICTURE FRAME MADE FOR "CAPTAIN L. KUKELA, U.S.M.C." LOUIS KUKELA (OR CUKELA) WAS AWARDED TWICE THE MEDAL OF HONOR BY BOTH THE U.S. ARMY AND THE U.S. NAVY FOR BRAVERY AT THE BATTLE OF SOISSONS DURING WORLD WAR ONE. THIS FINE HISTORICAL SILVER FRAME IS HANDCRAFTED IN FINE REPOUSSE WITH PIERCED-WORK AND DECORATED WITH FLOWERS AND LEAVES. IMPRESSED ON BACK BAR WITH 5 DIFFERENT CHINESE SILVER HALLMARKS OR SYMBOLS. ENGRAVED ON FRONT OF BACK BAR "TIENTSIN 11/5/28."

 

LOUIS KUKELA IMMIGRATED TO THE UNITED STATES FROM AUSTRIA IN 1913 AND ENLISTED IN THE U.S. ARMY, SERVING 1914-1916, AND THEN 1917-1946 IN THE U.S. MARINE CORPS. HE ROSE TO RANK OF CAPTAIN IN 1921. ULTIMATELY, KUKELA RECEIVED MANY DECORATIONS AND WAS MADE A MAJOR. DURING WW2, HE SERVED IN NORFOLK AND PHILADELPHIA UNTIL RETIRING IN 1946. IN 1923, HE MARRIED MINNIE MYRTLE STRAYER OF MIFFLINTOWN, PENNSYLVANIA, WHICH MAY HELP EXPLAIN HOW I CAME ACROSS THIS FRAME AT AN S.E. PENNSYLVANIA ESTATE SALE.

CONDITION IS EXCELLENT WITH NO CRACKS OR BREAKS IN THE FRAME. ONLY THE HINGE PIN IS A REPLACEMENT. GUARANTEED AUTHENTIC. MEASURES 7" HIGH AND 4 3/4" AT WIDEST. WEIGHS 77 GRAMS OR 2.7 OZ. PLEASE EXAMINE ENLARGED PHOTOS CAREFULLY, THEY WILL SHOW CONDITION.

[teufelhunde.ret]

:think:

[teufelhunde.ret]

:think:

[teufelhunde.ret]

:think:

[teufelhunde.ret]

:think:

[teufelhunde.ret]

:think:

[History Man]

if its real i would hate to see a scrap dealer buy it to melt it down into bars :crying: what do you guys think, does it look legit?

 

Philip

[Bob Hudson]

if its real i would hate to see a scrap dealer buy it to melt it down into bars :crying: what do you guys think, does it look legit?

 

Philip

 

Well his name is misspelled with a "K" instead of a "C" but it appears that it may have been spelled with a "K" in Croation. It could be this was a presentation piece from his men when he was a Captain in China in the late 1920's and someone screwed up. Or perhaps a Croation relative had i made for him and used the old world spelling.

 

After he and his wife died, the closest next-of-kin was his wife's nephew who lived in Pennsylvania before migrating back to what was then Yugoslavia.

 

So your choices are:

 

- misspelled but actually belonged to a double MoH recipient

 

- belonged to someone else

 

- fake

 

I don't think it's a fake, but if you could interpret the Chinese hallmarks you might get a location and year that would match his China service.

 

As said, you have to go on faith on this one.

[USAFnav]

For that price you won't have to worry about someone buying it just to "melt" it. You wouldn't get anywhere near that in melt value.

Pete

[Bob Hudson]

For that price you won't have to worry about someone buying it just to "melt" it. You wouldn't get anywhere near that in melt value.

Pete

 

What is it, less than $80 at today's prices. I've been dealing a lot in silver lately, and I was surprised to see that frame is so light, but even if it was twice as heavy, if you took it to the typical silver buyer who pays 80% of spot, you'd walk away with just $117.26!

[USAFnav]

What is it, less than $80 at today's prices. I've been dealing a lot in silver lately, and I was surprised to see that frame is so light, but even if it was twice as heavy, if you took it to the typical silver buyer who pays 80% of spot, you'd walk away with just $117.26!

 

Of course, for that I'd give 100% of spot!

Pete

[Dirk]

Came to the same conclusions as FS and tend to be somewhat positive on it. Am bothered by the misspelling but Chinese silversmiths have made such mistakes before (at least the not great ones).....like the chop marks better on this then I did on that"Chinese made EGA " that was up a few weeks ago....Still no way to prove the frame was his....so your buying on the story for whatever that is worth....

[teufelhunde.ret]

Its back for another run...

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/120828439609?ssPag...984.m1438.l2649

[teufelhunde.ret]

Update; I did take the "leap of faith" on the item. Having since taken it to three silversmith's, who have confirmed it is original to the period in question (20's / 30's), and now thanks to fellow forum member "Dirk", I have rec'd the PM answer I was seeking last night: who or what company made this?

 

"Your silver frame is marked Ho Brothers (or brethren) meaning an older and younger brother worked in the same shop."

 

Many, many thx Dirk!!!! In your call, you mentioned another word or set of words, your interpretor used for the other marks?

[Dirk]

Bringing this older thread back to the fore. In the almost eight years since the last post, the online scholarship on Chinese silver has improved. Originally, I was told the item was made by the "Ho brothers" and that could still be correct, but believe it was made and sold by Wu Hua & Company of Tientsin. I am slowly learning how the Chinese made, marked and sold their silver during this period and in the case of this maker I believe Tientsin is listed on the piece as the location of the seller. The company that sold it as noted above, was "Wu Hua" or "Wou Hau" who was active in Tientsin between 1890 and 1940. Ho could have been the silversmith that worked for that shop. Hua had two locations: one in the French Consession and his main store in the Japanese concession. This shop was known for its high production standards. Yet MOH awardee Cukela has his name spelled differently. Either Bob is correct and in Croat it is spelled with a K or the silver engraver made a mistake in spelling. Such mistakes with the English language on souvenirs of this period are almost standard, even for high end sellers like Wu Hau. But given what little I know of Cukela's character is don't think he would have tolerated such a prominent mistake.  So perhaps this is what he ordered engraved. Another thing I have learned is in Chinese Silver making, unlike English silver production, there are no rules. So mastering anything in this area still leaves large knowledge gaps.

[SgtMaddoxUSMC]

Awesome piece!

[teufelhunde.ret]

I am so pleased to see this old thread given new life... thanks for the update Dirk

[warguy]

Yes thank you Dirk for bringing this up, I never saw the original thread and this was a fun read this morning. I have admired Cukula for some years, as I continue to research and study WWI Marines. I am almost certain I have seen his name spelled with both a C and a K along the way, but certainly the C spelling is by far the most common. Things like this always have me asking myself, “if I was a faker and engraved this in order to dupe others into believing this frame originally belonged to a very famous USMC WWI  MOH recipient, wouldn’t I engrave it with a spelling most commonly recognized?” I am far from any expert on these things, but to me, this just feels right, especially with verification the Chinese marks match the time period he served there, and I personally think it is the real deal and is spectacular. I love the photo chosen for its display. What a center piece! I think this is a leap I would have certainly taken. Kevin

[Dirk]

Kevin like you I think it’s good. I spent a long time studying this and a number of other pieces that came out of the country during the China Marine years. Much research, reference material purchased, and study pieces gained. Still hardly know anything but imho no doubt it’s a good piece D picked up. The challenge now for me is to decode the silver marks on the back. I am always interested in where the Marines bought their souvenirs and why this jeweler.  Sometimes is proximity to quarters, reputation of quality, or just a good price. Gives us a little bit of insight to Cukela maybe not yet seen.

[Dirk]

As for misspellings....when it came to Chinese or Japan’s products Silks, silver etc...misspellings are almost standard. Many of these artists  at the time were illiterate, not only with English, but their own countries languages. 

[warguy]

Thanks again Dirk, your research into this era of Marine Corps history is very valuable. I can certainly appreciate misspellings of names in China by local artisans of this time frame. I still just wonder, in this particular case, if this engraving with this spelling wasn't intentional. It would be interesting to see if there is any reference to the K spelling in his military records. D-did you ever order those up, (probably a couple hundred pages worth). Once again, I know I have seen it and looked around a bit this morning, but cant find where. It seems too coincidental that his birth name may have been spelled this way in his country of origin. He was such an interesting influence within the Corps, once when dis-satisfied with a privates report on following his orders, he remarked "Next time I send a Damn fool, I go myself". Gotta love that kind of wit. 

[Dirk]

Kevin my first hunch is a Bob pointed out above is the spelling was intentional. So a hunt for how he and his family spelled it would be excellent project. Not discounting anything correct spelling, misspelling....just glad the frame has resurfaced and D spotted it.