Army Lance Corporal

[iamck94]

I seem to recall reading somewhere that the Army had a Lance Corporal rank for a short time (1965-1968) it was apparently signified by one stripe with a rocker underneath (current PFC insignia). In '68 the insignia became PFC. So basically if my understanding is correct an E-1 was a Private, and E-2 a Private First Class, and an E-3 a Lance Corporal. This essentially follows the Marine Corps ranking and I know that what I was reading was about the Army because I remember pausing and going "huh?". I just wanted to see if anyone could shed some light on whether it is fact of fiction. As odd as it sounds it would make this shirt make sense. The shirt is the older short sleeve Khaki shirt and the insignia is the one stripe one rocker. This shirt wasn't issued in '68, so unless this guy went in the Army in the early 60s and continuously got busted down, I can see two options. Someone sewed PFC insignia on an old shirt or between '65-'68, this insignia was Lance Corporal.

[Bob Hudson]

It does appear to be the 65-68 Lance Corporal insignia.

[patches]

I seem to recall reading somewhere that the Army had a Lance Corporal rank for a short time (1965-1968) it was apparently signified by one stripe with a rocker underneath (current PFC insignia). In '68 the insignia became PFC. So basically if my understanding is correct an E-1 was a Private, and E-2 a Private First Class, and an E-3 a Lance Corporal. This essentially follows the Marine Corps ranking and I know that what I was reading was about the Army because I remember pausing and going "huh?". I just wanted to see if anyone could shed some light on whether it is fact of fiction. As odd as it sounds it would make this shirt make sense. The shirt is the older short sleeve Khaki shirt and the insignia is the one stripe one rocker. This shirt wasn't issued in '68, so unless this guy went in the Army in the early 60s and continuously got busted down, I can see two options. Someone sewed PFC insignia on an old shirt or between '65-'68, this insignia was Lance Corporal.

 

As Was said in an recent earlier topic on the long sleeve shirt transition to short sleeve ones,this older style was a brief issue item in 1965 when the short sleeve shirt became manditory because of the hugh amount of men entering the army as the war had just escalated at that time and more where coming due draft increases with not enough of the new specificly made short sleeve shirts being avilable for the time being. This older type could also be aquired by any man for wear on his own as it was a totally autherized shirt, with it continuing to be seen throughout the remainder of the 60s.When large stocks and I mean large stocks of the new specificly made short sleeve shirts became avialable this older shirt stoped being issued. In reguards to Pfc rank insignia it is somewhat confusing, it would seem that the new rank was not introducted for wear until 1968 in the spring and summer thereof, it was however listed as a rank in earlier bullitins and on rank posters as Lance corporal with the pay grade as E-3 but was never issued or worn.In Evans E.kerrigan's 1967 American badges And Insignia it is depicted and is described as Lance Corporal.However the Single Pfc chevron was being worn as the rank for PFC throughout this period.

 

It was only in the spring May I think that this new rank started to be worn this coincided with the restructure of the Private ranks This being thus E-1 recruit now E-1 PVT1,E-2 PVT now PVT2 (Wearing the old single chevron of PFC) and E-3 PFC(wearing this new single chevron and single rocker) you can see both flat edge and merrowed examples of this new PFC rank patch in full colour.This was also the time that the new rank was created within the grade of E-9, this being Command Sergeant major,prior to this it was just sergeant major which had the insignia of three stripes and three rockers with a star in the center,the new rak as you know for command sergeants major has a small star with the wreath,this new sergeants major rank split the grade of E-9 along the lines of 1st sergeant and master sergeant whitin the grade of E-8.in this case command sergeants major holding command/leadership slots while sergeants major (sometimes confusingly called Staff sergeants major) holding adminstration/technical/specialist slots. Kerrigan again in the 1967 book has this new command sergeant rank depicted but it is not like the official one in that it still has the large star with an even larger wreath, I interrestly have a full colour hand upgrade of this one depicted in the kerrigan book with the wreaths hand embriodred around the large star

[El Bibliotecario]

"...it was however listed as a rank in earlier bullitins and on rank posters as Lance corporal with the pay grade as E-3 but was never issued or worn.In Evans E.kerrigan's 1967 American badges And Insignia it is depicted and is described as Lance Corporal.However the Single Pfc chevron was being worn as the rank for PFC throughout this period."

 

That is correct. I was on active duty when the rank was first proposed in 65 or 66; most EM thought would be a stupid waste of time for all E3s to have to replaces their stripes--this was before pin-on rank. But there were NEVER any lance corporals.

[patches]

"...it was however listed as a rank in earlier bullitins and on rank posters as Lance corporal with the pay grade as E-3 but was never issued or worn.In Evans E.kerrigan's 1967 American badges And Insignia it is depicted and is described as Lance Corporal.However the Single Pfc chevron was being worn as the rank for PFC throughout this period."

 

That is correct. I was on active duty when the rank was first proposed in 65 or 66; most EM thought would be a stupid waste of time for all E3s to have to replaces their stripes--this was before pin-on rank. But there were NEVER any lance corporals.

 

Yes, The proof would be in finding an E-3 listed as KIA in South Vietnam from the fall of 1965 when heavy fighting began in earnest up to the spring of 1968 or those E-3s who recieved decorations or just listed in unit rosters Army Wide and see how many of these E-3s have their rank as Lance Corporal or its common abbreviation L/CPL,you will not find it, they will ALL have their rank as Private First Class.