SEABEEBRIAN Posted October 3, 2011 Share #76 Posted October 3, 2011 OK, a couple of recently discovered photos (at least discovered by me) The medals of John Balch, currently on display at the Navy Hospital Corpsman Hall of Honor, Bethesda Naval Hospital A photo just emailed to me from VMI, showing Richard Byrd and Floyd Bennett receiving their Tiffany Crosses from President Coolidge I understand that Richard Byrd's Tiffany was auctioned or sold in England around 1988. Anyone know anything about that? Here is the cover of the Sotheby's auction catalog and the page showing his Tiffany Cross. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted October 3, 2011 Share #77 Posted October 3, 2011 Man guys, this is great! Keep up the good work! :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuftStalg1 Posted October 3, 2011 Share #78 Posted October 3, 2011 Never say never! LOL Here Schilt's Tiffany Cross is being pinned directly to his jacket. Just to keep things honest. LOL 4starchris P.S. Both of the stone where docs in the navy. Interesting enough! Interesting note on this particular image of Schilt. Years ago I called the Naval Archive looking for a better picture of Schilt showing the medal as the one they had listed showed it being presented much like the one of Balch. After a few phone conversations with them they found this one for me so I purchased it. About a month later after I paid for it the image showed up on the internet for free, dough! This may be the way to find new images the Naval Archives would not otherwise be aware of. Call them requesting a pictures of the presentation to a specific person and they will look for it then maybe they will find another wonderful but forgotten image? :think: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuftStalg1 Posted October 3, 2011 Share #79 Posted October 3, 2011 OK, a couple of recently discovered photos (at least discovered by me) The medals of John Balch, currently on display at the Navy Hospital Corpsman Hall of Honor, Bethesda Naval Hospital A photo just emailed to me from VMI, showing Richard Byrd and Floyd Bennett receiving their Tiffany Crosses from President Coolidge I understand that Richard Byrd's Tiffany was auctioned or sold in England around 1988. Anyone know anything about that? Wohoo, a new one! That is the first time I have heard / seen John Balch's. :w00t: Thanks Ed, keep it up! I had all those images Chris but thanks for adding them to the post! :bravo: Just spotted a pic at Bathesda of the plaque I remembered seeing on the outside of a building, it was for Balch. :w00t: It just keeps getting better! :twothumbup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4STARCHRIS Posted October 3, 2011 Share #80 Posted October 3, 2011 I imagine you do. But I thought it would be nice to post them to the thread so others can glance through them here without having to go look for them here in the forum somewhere, or out on the web. 4starchris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanemono Posted October 3, 2011 Share #81 Posted October 3, 2011 This is a really interesting thread! Thank you for all the research. Dick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emccomas Posted October 3, 2011 Author Share #82 Posted October 3, 2011 I agree, this is a fun thread. Here is a snapshot of the info I am collecting. I will post it for all to see when it firms up a bit more. Stay tuned..... Tiffany Cross Recipient: Eduoard Izac Date of action: 5/21/1918 Date of Issue: 11/11/1920 MOH Style: Tiffany Cross Proof of TC award: Pic of recipient holding boxed TC Location of MOH: Naval Historical Center, Washington Navy Yard This is currently in an excel spreadsheet. I get electronic copies of the photos that are used as proof that the recipient was awarded a Tiffany Cross. Most of those photos have also been posted in this thread. Anything else that you guys wanty to see in terms of info? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emccomas Posted October 3, 2011 Author Share #83 Posted October 3, 2011 On a related note, here is a picture of the Medal of Honor on display in honor of Richard Byrd at the Virginia Military Institute. Admiral Byrd is a graduate of VMI. The MOH was provided to VMI by the Institute of Heraldry. The MOH is not named. Obviously not a Tiffany Cross. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin B. Posted October 3, 2011 Share #84 Posted October 3, 2011 Great photos being posted! I love the one of Byrd and Bennett, check how Byrd "missed" his top button for a stylin' long lapel. Note also Bennett as a WO doesn't have a sword knot. Thanks for all the contributions, Justin B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuftStalg1 Posted October 3, 2011 Share #85 Posted October 3, 2011 I agree, this is a fun thread. Here is a snapshot of the info I am collecting. I will post it for all to see when it firms up a bit more. Stay tuned..... Tiffany Cross Recipient: Eduoard Izac Date of action: 5/21/1918 Date of Issue: 11/11/1920 MOH Style: Tiffany Cross Proof of TC award: Pic of recipient holding boxed TC Location of MOH: Naval Historical Center, Washington Navy Yard This is currently in an excel spreadsheet. I get electronic copies of the photos that are used as proof that the recipient was awarded a Tiffany Cross. Most of those photos have also been posted in this thread. Anything else that you guys wanty to see in terms of info? Ed, have you been able to figure out what newspaper the photo of Izac is from and when? I have tried but to no avail. I figure they would have the original COLOR photo on file! Wouldn’t that be nice!? :w00t: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emccomas Posted October 4, 2011 Author Share #86 Posted October 4, 2011 Ed, have you been able to figure out what newspaper the photo of Izac is from and when? I have tried but to no avail. I figure they would have the original COLOR photo on file! Wouldn’t that be nice!? :w00t: I have not, but you are right. I'll put that on the list of things to research. I assume we have all seen this photo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wharfmaster Posted October 4, 2011 Share #87 Posted October 4, 2011 Outstanding photos guys. It's hard to believe that there is a MOH Recipient out there (after 1918) that was NOT photographed. It would be a major political blunder for the President and the Services to fail to take an offical photograph upon awarding the MOH. Photos of all recipients must be out there somewhere. The Wharfmaster Remembering the crew of the USS Nevada, 7 December 1941. Heroes all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emccomas Posted October 4, 2011 Author Share #88 Posted October 4, 2011 Outstanding photos guys. It's hard to believe that there is a MOH Recipient out there (after 1918) that was NOT photographed. It would be a major political blunder for the President and the Services to fail to take an offical photograph upon awarding the MOH. Photos of all recipients must be out there somewhere. The Wharfmaster Remembering the crew of the USS Nevada, 7 December 1941. Heroes all. True, but keep in mind that not all MOH presentations were done by the President. Edouard Izac got his MOH from Franklin D. Roosevelt in 1920. FDR was at that time Assistant Secretary of the Navy. I am sure that official photos exist, just not as easy to find as ones with the President in them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wharfmaster Posted October 4, 2011 Share #89 Posted October 4, 2011 True, but keep in mind that not all MOH presentations were done by the President. Edouard Izac got his MOH from Franklin D. Roosevelt in 1920. FDR was at that time Assistant Secretary of the Navy. I am sure that official photos exist, just not as easy to find as ones with the President in them. Very true. However, FDR would have been in deep "hot water" with the President had he failed to photograph a MOH Recipient. The Wharfmaster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuftStalg1 Posted October 4, 2011 Share #90 Posted October 4, 2011 Well like my personal experience with the photo of Schilt at attention next to President Coolidge after having Tiffany pinned on his chest. I had to ask the naval archivist to look for a good photo for me and after several phone calls, not email, they came up with that one. And now it is available on the net for free! Sorry, that still blows me away. So my suggestion is to call them and ask that they look for such a photo of each one we still need. The trouble with this is you can not ask for to much at once like all 17 photos we still need. You do that and your request is more likely to be filed away. Just one or two at a time per person, so if we each pick a couple of guys to call about we will most likely be successful. :think: Is any one ready to participate in this GROUP effort? I only ask because it is NOT free. :dunno: Needed photos of presentation for(Presidential or otherwise): Graves, Ora Cann, Tedford Harris Upton, Frank Monroe Lyle, Alexander Gordon Sullivan, Daniel Augustus Joseph Izac, Edward Victor Michael Hoffman, Charles F., AKA: Ernest August Janson Petty, Orlando Henderson Cukela, Louis Boone, Joel Thompson Balch, John Henry Hayden, David Ephraim Kelly, John Joseph Siegel, John Otto Button, William Robert Hanneken, Herman Henry Madison, James J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuftStalg1 Posted October 4, 2011 Share #91 Posted October 4, 2011 And here is the updated list of Tiffany locations. Graves, Ora Cann, Tedford Harris Upton, Frank Monroe Lyle, Alexander Gordon Sullivan, Daniel Augustus Joseph Izac, Edward Victor Michael Hoffman, Charles F., AKA: Ernest August Janson Petty, Orlando Henderson Cukela, Louis Boone, Joel Thompson Balch, John Henry (1997, Bathesda Naval Hospital, Corpsman Hall of Honor) Hammann, Charles Hazeltine Hayden, David Ephraim Kelly, John Joseph Pruitt, John Henry Talbot, Ralph Siegel, John Otto (CA Museum, Not displayed) Button, William Robert Hanneken, Herman Henry Madison, James J. Byrd, Richard Evelyn Jr. (Sotheby sale Abt. 1988) Bennett, Floyd (NASM) Schilt, Christian Franklin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4STARCHRIS Posted October 4, 2011 Share #92 Posted October 4, 2011 I am alittle confused. Some of the people on the list for pics we have pics of. Do we want the presentation photo? Is that what we are asking for? I still need to go through some old boxes to see if I have anymore pics, in general of these reipients. 4starchris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emccomas Posted October 4, 2011 Author Share #93 Posted October 4, 2011 I am alittle confused. Some of the people on the list for pics we have pics of. Do we want the presentation photo? Is that what we are asking for?I still need to go through some old boxes to see if I have anymore pics, in general of these reipients. 4starchris I'm with Chris on this. The photos would be nice, but what I am looking for is confirmation that a recipient received the Tiffany Cross. The following meet my criteria: 1. A photo of recipient wearing / receiving Tiffany Cross. TC must be clearly visible. 2. A photo of an engraved Tiffany Cross, with recipients name clearly visible. 3. A photo of a Tiffany Cross on display and clearly attributed to a specific recipient. A quick count of the photos I have collected is 11 confirmed TC recipients based on the criteria listed above. Confirmation means that I have a copy of a photo that meets the above criteria. They are: Balch Byrd Izac Bennett Schilt Madison Boone Kelly Cukela Petty Osborne I am writing this quickly, so I may have missed one or two. I'll double check this later and confirm the number. I have also eliminated Hobson and Ryan as possibles beacause I have photos at the presentation ceremonies of them with the star MOH. I "think" I may also be able to exclude Albert Smith, Schmidt, and MacKenzie, but I am waiting / looking for final confirmation that they received the star MOH originally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4STARCHRIS Posted October 4, 2011 Share #94 Posted October 4, 2011 Thanks for the clarification. I will now go in look in the "old" files I have had for over 20-30 years and see if I have anyone else pictured in the. We are getting there. Slowly but surely. 4starchris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emccomas Posted October 5, 2011 Author Share #95 Posted October 5, 2011 Thanks for the clarification. I will now go in look in the "old" files I have had for over 20-30 years and see if I have anyone else pictured in the. We are getting there. Slowly but surely. 4starchris Thanks Chris, looking forward to any photos you can locate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emccomas Posted October 5, 2011 Author Share #96 Posted October 5, 2011 Found one more. I have a picture of the engraving on a Tiffany to Robert Guy Robinson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emccomas Posted October 5, 2011 Author Share #97 Posted October 5, 2011 Here is an interesting web page. The Tiffany Cross is depicted at the top, but the star MOH is clearly shown in the actual award photo. http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=...CaBSd8SwvD4Grbw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPage Posted October 5, 2011 Share #98 Posted October 5, 2011 Remember it was special legislation that awarded 7 MoH's and this may be where the answer lies. Did the Board not know of the two medal system ans just deemed the actions worthy of a MoH? Then someone else not knowing the two medal system pick it out of a hat per sey. Hobson was on of those and he recieved the wrong medal, non-combat, for combat actions?4starchris In Hobson's case, the legislation likely stemmed from the fact that it was being awarded long after the statute of limitations ran out. Also, he may have received the original-style medal because that medal's planchet (star design; no 1917-1918) was the one that existed at the time of action. Maybe that was the reasoning. I've looked at the legislations awarding MoH's from 1919 -1942 (excluding the Unknown Soldier awards), as listed in the back of United States of America's Congressional Medal of Honor Recipients and Their Official Citations and Lindbergh's and Greeley's awards are all that I saw. There wasn't any mention of the navy recipients for some reason. I think the government's inconsistency regarding the TC awards can be chalked up to the fact that this country was still relatively young, didn't have a long tradition of decorations or awards, and that there may have been some bureaucratic inertia or confusion. Recall the Certificate of Merit not being awarded during the Civil War due to confusion over the scope of that award's criterion. The government thought it was only for the Mexican War. Then they created and discontinued a medal for it in the space of 13 years, and then authorized conversion medals in the form of the DSM and DSC, which didn't always fit. I can imagine the US government screwing up the TC awards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuftStalg1 Posted October 5, 2011 Share #99 Posted October 5, 2011 Found one more. I have a picture of the engraving on a Tiffany to Robert Guy Robinson. Forgot all about that one Ed, thanks! :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuftStalg1 Posted October 5, 2011 Share #100 Posted October 5, 2011 So that is the complete official list of the 27 then!? :thumbsup: Please pardon any misspellings and errors in advance. This is just a cut and past from my old notes. Ora Graves – 7/23/17 Osmond Kelly Ingram – 10/15/17 Tedford Harris Cann – (Traded in for star) 11/5/17 Frank Monroe Upton – (Traded in for star) 4/17/18 Alexander Gordon Lyle – 4/23/18 Daniel Augustus Joseph Sullivan – 5/21/18 Edouard Victor Michael Izac – 5/31/18 Weedon E. Osborne– 6/6/18 Charles F. Hoffman – (aka: Ernest August Janson) 6/6/18 Orlando Henderson Petty – 6/11/18 Louis Cukela – 7/18/18 Matej Kocak – (KIA) 7/18/18 Joel Thompson Boone – (Both variations) 7/1918 John Henry Balch – 7/19/18 Charles Hazeltine Hammann - (KIA) 8/21/18 David Ephraim Hayden – 9/15/18 John Joseph Kelly - 10/3/18 John Henry Pruitt - (KIA)10/3/18 Ralph Talbot - (KIA) 10/8/18 Robert Guy Robinson - 10/8/18 John Otto Siegel - 11/1/18 William Robert Button - 11/1/19 Herman Henry Hanneken - 11/1/19 James J. Madison - 11/30/18 Richard Evelyn Byrd Jr. - (Both variations) 2/17/27 Floyd Bennett - 2/17/27 Christian Franklin Schilt - 1/6-8/31 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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