Tiffany Cross Recipients

[emccomas]

OK, I found the list that I was thinking about. It is on the homeofheros forum. I have no idea how accurate this list is, but it is a starting point.

 

Here is a link:

 

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=...yrGM3cg_0My71Dg

 

And the list, with the Sullivan addition is as follows:

 

Joel Boone

Louis Cukela

Charles Hammann

Eduoard Izac

Ernest Janson

John J. Kelly

Matej Kocak

Weedon Osborne

John Pruiett

Robert Robinson

John Siegel

Ralph Talbot

Floyd Bennett Non-Combative Action

William Button

Richard Byrd Non-Combative Action

Herman Hanneken

Frank Schilt

Daniel A.J. Sullivan

[LuftStalg1]

Here are the photos again.

[LuftStalg1]

Here are the photos again.

reverse

[emccomas]

Spelling error in the list

 

John Pruiett is actually John Pruitt

 

The closest possibility I find from this list is Herman Hanneken

 

Medal of Honor 10/31 & 11/1, 1919

Navy Cross 3/31 & 4/1, 1920

Navy Cross 12/11/1928 - 6/30/1929

 

Brief Bio

Herman Hanneken enlisted in the Marine Corps in 1914 and served as an enlisted Marine for four years, achieving the rank of sergeant. He was appointed a second lieutenant in December 1919, following the killing of Charlemagne in Haiti which earned him the Medal of Honor. He retired as a U.S. Marine Corps Brigadier General.

 

 

No explanation for the Cuban Pacification Medal...Hermann Hanneken was not awarded this medal, as best I can tell, but it looks like he had the others in the 1920 time frame. He also had the Mexican Campaign Medal 1914.

 

Still a mystery.

[SEABEEBRIAN]

I will try to get to the Navy Yard either on Friday or on Monday and see what I can find at the Historical Center or the SECNAV and CNO awards board.

[SEABEEBRIAN]

Spelling error in the list

 

John Pruiett is actually John Pruitt

 

The closest possibility I find from this list is Herman Hanneken

 

Medal of Honor 10/31 & 11/1, 1919

Navy Cross 3/31 & 4/1, 1920

Navy Cross 12/11/1928 - 6/30/1929

 

Brief Bio

Herman Hanneken enlisted in the Marine Corps in 1914 and served as an enlisted Marine for four years, achieving the rank of sergeant. He was appointed a second lieutenant in December 1919, following the killing of Charlemagne in Haiti which earned him the Medal of Honor. He retired as a U.S. Marine Corps Brigadier General.

No explanation for the Cuban Pacification Medal...Hermann Hanneken was not awarded this medal, as best I can tell, but it looks like he had the others in the 1920 time frame. He also had the Mexican Campaign Medal 1914.

 

Still a mystery.

If anyone is interested... His grave is at Point Loma at the Rosecrans National Cemetery in San Diego, CA

[4STARCHRIS]

Here are the photos again.

 

Are these mini to a named recipient? These are a great set of minis.

4starchris

[SEABEEBRIAN]

We are still waiting for more information

[emccomas]

Are these mini to a named recipient? These are a great set of minis.

4starchris

 

Chris;

 

I was hoping you would join the discussion. Just in case you haven't seen the previous thread that started this all...

 

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ind...howtopic=121518

 

What are your thoughts?

[emccomas]

I just noticed this info from the homeofheros thread.

 

The Naval Historical Center seems to think that:

 

World War I U.S. Navy Medal of Honor ("Tiffany Cross" pattern)

Only 21 Navy and 7 Marine Corps personnel received Medals of Honor of this pattern.

 

That would be 28 recipients. The list above has 18 recipients. The mystery continues.

[emccomas]

OK, an update to the list of Tiffany Cross recipients. This topic has been discussed before on the USFM.

 

Here is the link: http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ind...c=17194&hl=

 

and the list of 25 recipients of the Tiffany Cross

 

John Balch

Joel Boone

Louis Cukela

Charles Hamman

David Hayden

Osmond Ingram

Eduoard Izac

Ernest Janson

John Kelly

Matej Kocak

Alexander Lyle

James Madison

Weedon Osborne

Orlando Petty

John Pruitt

Robert Robinson

John Siegel

Daniel Sullivan

Ralph Talbot

Frank Upton

 

In the Interim Years the recipients were:

 

Floyd Bennett Non-Combative Action

William Button

Richard Byrd Non-Combative Action

Herman Hanneken

Frank Schilt

[4STARCHRIS]

reverse

 

I have several thoughts here. First on the mini medals themselves. I noticed several oddities. The GC medal is not attached with the rest of the medals. Which might indicate it has been added later. The MoH at the top loop, looped over the bar is much dirtier than the rest of the grouping. If this set was actually worn for any period of time I see no wear on the medals showing that they have been worn. Hitting each other as they say. Though the medals look dated to a WWI period the ribbons espeically on the back side look relatively fresh. The mounting bar is of forgien origin if I am not mistaking is it not, a 5 mini bar mount, probably british?

 

The tiffany cross itself was a non combat award. Yet one of the biggest problems was thatmany were confused with the Navy "combat" MoH. This was on of the down falls of the tiffany cross. The mini "MoH" medal itself was an unathorized medal and not an "official" medal. No one really knows how many were made and who authorized the making of the medal. The forum thread has discussed this issue several time. Having, making, authorized are all different issues and foggy areas when the MoH mini is concerned. But it is also interesting to note here that of all the MoH's the navy tiffany cross mini was one of the most popular mini worn. I don't think I have ever seen a mini army MoH worn in a picture like the tiffany cross.

 

In the mini shown. Using the Admiral as the recipient. The two navy crosses issuesd, one was for a peace time, non-combat, award and the other for combat. The first navy cross than would of been the earlier one upgraded, so we think. So that the first navy cross would of had the narrow white stripe down the center? As the second WWII navy cross would of had the larger stripe?

 

My two cents worth.

4starchris

[kanemono]

You are correct about the mounting. I have two US miniature groups that were mounted in England or someplace like Hong Kong. Both groups are in Spink and Son leather cases. The mounting bar in the Tiffany group is nearly identical to my groups except for the pin and catch.

Dick

[LuftStalg1]

Remember guys with this group, going by strictly what we see, we only have (1) Navy Cross n and the possibility (not shown) of the loose Dewey medal. And I strongly agree that the NGC was added later as it appears to NOT be of the same quality / era as the other medals. :think: No response from the seller yet on the full size piece or documentation.

 

As for the British bar, would that fit that being part of the AEF or in the general fighting area around France that he might have had this made while in England? :dunno:

 

And again with this mini Navy Cross it is of the three piece type like the early large ones so would that date it? Does the narrow white strip fit in the same time period or are they skewed? :think:

[4STARCHRIS]

This only gets better and better. The narrow white stripe does date it to an older navy cross. The british bar could go with the bar being made overseas, however, the tiffany cross, mini, being found oversea would be highly rare. Not saying impossible but rare. As I mentioned earlier. This was the most common mini MoH I ever saw worn.

Chris

[LuftStalg1]

Well the NC is three piece but NOT the narrow white stripe. Hummmmm.......... And the Tiffany "Valour" is marked BB&B bronze so no doubt US made. :think: Man I am getting a headache again I hope I hear from the seller soon!

[4STARCHRIS]

BB&B is the only maker of the Tiffany Cross that I know of. If I remember correctly someone has even posted an ad from BB&B showing the mini and its price in a previous thread.

It also appears that the navy cross ribbon at the MoH has be "eaten" away for a better word, from the pic. Is this the case?

What a great mini. I hope someone here can solidly ID the bar.

4starchris

[LuftStalg1]

BB&B is the only maker of the Tiffany Cross that I know of. If I remember correctly someone has even posted an ad from BB&B showing the mini and its price in a previous thread.

It also appears that the navy cross ribbon at the MoH has be "eaten" away for a better word, from the pic. Is this the case?

What a great mini. I hope someone here can solidly ID the bar.

4starchris

 

Yup, I remember that add as well, made me drool! :jeal0001:

 

Right again, it appears the NC ribbon has been eaten by the Tiffany and it also looks as if the WW1Vic is being eaten by the infamous CubPac ribbon.

 

One other thing I noticed, and I have no idea if this is correct or not, the bar is brass and the fittings have been soldiered on and you can see a stain on the Tiffany ribbon right where the soldier runs over from the hing. The pin also seems to be one of the ones with the shoulder on it to keep tension on the clasp when you hook it. Clear as mud!? :think:

[4STARCHRIS]

See post 12. What an eye I have. LOL

 

Still a great bar.

 

4starchris

[SEABEEBRIAN]

I have several thoughts here. First on the mini medals themselves. I noticed several oddities. The GC medal is not attached with the rest of the medals. Which might indicate it has been added later. The MoH at the top loop, looped over the bar is much dirtier than the rest of the grouping. If this set was actually worn for any period of time I see no wear on the medals showing that they have been worn. Hitting each other as they say. Though the medals look dated to a WWI period the ribbons espeically on the back side look relatively fresh. The mounting bar is of forgien origin if I am not mistaking is it not, a 5 mini bar mount, probably british?

 

The tiffany cross itself was a non combat award. Yet one of the biggest problems was thatmany were confused with the Navy "combat" MoH. This was on of the down falls of the tiffany cross. The mini "MoH" medal itself was an unathorized medal and not an "official" medal. No one really knows how many were made and who authorized the making of the medal. The forum thread has discussed this issue several time. Having, making, authorized are all different issues and foggy areas when the MoH mini is concerned. But it is also interesting to note here that of all the MoH's the navy tiffany cross mini was one of the most popular mini worn. I don't think I have ever seen a mini army MoH worn in a picture like the tiffany cross.

 

In the mini shown. Using the Admiral as the recipient. The two navy crosses issuesd, one was for a peace time, non-combat, award and the other for combat. The first navy cross than would of been the earlier one upgraded, so we think. So that the first navy cross would of had the narrow white stripe down the center? As the second WWII navy cross would of had the larger stripe?

 

My two cents worth.

4starchris

 

Please note that all of the Tiffany Crosses were combat awards except for 2 of them. There are several pictures out there of mini army medals of honor. Bailey, Banks and Biddle sold them both for $5 each in their 1928 catalog. Regarding navy crosses, only one full size would ever be awarded with subsequent awards issued a gold star. I'm not sure I understand where you are going with your last paragraph since all miniature medals were private purchases. Only the full size medals had the 2 varieties of navy cross ribbon.

[kanemono]

The discoloration on the bar and ribbon could be from a repair using lead solder and a soldering iron. The stain on both bar and ribbon would be from the flux used when soldering. A low temperature lead and tin mix solder would allow the pin to be soldered to the bar without removing the ribbon.

Dick

[4STARCHRIS]

Please note that all of the Tiffany Crosses were combat awards except for 2 of them. There are several pictures out there of mini army medals of honor. Bailey, Banks and Biddle sold them both for $5 each in their 1928 catalog. Regarding navy crosses, only one full size would ever be awarded with subsequent awards issued a gold star. I'm not sure I understand where you are going with your last paragraph since all miniature medals were private purchases. Only the full size medals had the 2 varieties of navy cross ribbon.

 

 

See this is the confusion: Between 1919 and 1942, the Navy issued two separate versions of the Medal of Honor, one for non-combat bravery and the other for combat related acts. Official accounts vary, but generally the non-combat Medal of Honor was known as the Tiffany Cross.

These arn't my words just pointing out it was the problem even back then.

4starchris

 

P.S. From the CMOH site: The TIFFANY CROSS established for non-combat naval heroism in 1942 had proven unpopular, perhaps because it so closely resembled the German Iron Cross. It was also poorly regulated and documented. The Act of August 7th restored the earlier provisions of the Navy Medal of Honor for non-combat heroism and eliminated the Tiffany Cross and the two-medal system.

4starchris

 

I also would love to see any army mini MoH pic on a recipients uniforms if anyone has any they can post.

4starchris

[4STARCHRIS]

The discoloration on the bar and ribbon could be from a repair using lead solder and a soldering iron. The stain on both bar and ribbon would be from the flux used when soldering. A low temperature lead and tin mix solder would allow the pin to be soldered to the bar without removing the ribbon.

Dick

 

I agree. I was just making notes as to the oddieties of the grouping that had caught my eye. Now that a close-up of the grouping has been provided one can now see that this was a possibility. He must of been some kinda fixer upper to make that repair without burning the threads just underneath the clasp. IMHO. Or maybe it was rethreaded after the repair. Then one would have to ask, why risk the ribbon and the medal and just take it off. Repair the bar and then reapply the mini and rethread it?

4starchris

[emccomas]

OK, for the moment I am disregarding the fact that there is a "NAVY" GCM in this group.

 

Does anyone know for sure what type of MOH was awarded to Marine officer John Arthur Hughes?

I am not asking what type of MOH "should have been" awarded to this officer. I know that already.

 

I cannot find a photo with him wearing the MOH.

 

MOH - Vera Cruz 1914

NC - WWI - 1918 (also covers the Victory medal)

 

Served in Cuba 1906-1909 (covers the Cuban Pacification Medal)

 

Enlisted in Marine Corps 1900, became an officer in 1901. (GCM???)

[SEABEEBRIAN]

See this is the confusion: Between 1919 and 1942, the Navy issued two separate versions of the Medal of Honor, one for non-combat bravery and the other for combat related acts. Official accounts vary, but generally the non-combat Medal of Honor was known as the Tiffany Cross.

These arn't my words just pointing out it was the problem even back then.

4starchris

 

P.S. From the CMOH site: The TIFFANY CROSS established for non-combat naval heroism in 1942 had proven unpopular, perhaps because it so closely resembled the German Iron Cross. It was also poorly regulated and documented. The Act of August 7th restored the earlier provisions of the Navy Medal of Honor for non-combat heroism and eliminated the Tiffany Cross and the two-medal system.

4starchris

 

I also would love to see any army mini MoH pic on a recipients uniforms if anyone has any they can post.

4starchris

 

The Tiffany Cross was established to take the place of the original navy medal of honor and it was used for combat awards from 1918 through 1942, the original design was used for non-combat awards during that period, one of the exceptions being Admiral Byrd. Note that the four medal of honor awards for the squalus rescue were the original type medal of honor.

 

The information on the Congressional Medal of Honor Society website is just plain wrong. They may mean well but they don't have the facts on their side. The CMOHS is not the authority on everything related to the Medal of Honor, they have their own agenda.

 

There are a lot of pictures at the Navy historical center website of the combat awards of the Tiffany Cross. Some of the pictures are here

http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/awd/us-indiv/moh-3t.htm