Tim B Posted November 7, 2011 Share #26 Posted November 7, 2011 I believe the enlisted Army's wings (1913-1926) had a 4-prop propellor centered between wings. Not Army related, but U.S. Navy Enlisted Pilot wings. The enlisted pilot badge was identical to the officer badge, except that the enlisted badge was a silver color, while the officer badge is a gold or brass color. Source: http://www.navy.mil/swf/index.asp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patches Posted November 7, 2011 Share #27 Posted November 7, 2011 Bravo! I agree wholeheartedly. At McClellan AFB, Ca we had "Rafftery Hall" dedicated to MSgt Tom Rafferty, an enlisted pilot killed in a C~47 crash in the nearby Sierras. I hope to someday visit that crash site.In the meantime, here are a few sites that might be of interest: http://afehri.maxwell.af.mil/Documents/pdf/liaison.pdf http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Aviator_Badge http://afehri.maxwell.af.mil/Documents/pdf/McDonald.pdf http://www.afhso.af.mil/shared/media/docum...-100526-031.pdf "They Also Flew" IS one of the best books about enlisted pilots. Interresting links thanks. In any event, Rafferty who died in the service of his country was a transport plane pilot not a fighter pilot, it is interresting that he carried over to the new Air Force and was allowed to retain fight status, I belielve this was a fair move on the part of the USAF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hink441 Posted November 7, 2011 Share #28 Posted November 7, 2011 I believe the enlisted Army's wings (1913-1926) had a 4-prop propellor centered between wings. Not Army related, but U.S. Navy Enlisted Pilot wings. The enlisted pilot badge was identical to the officer badge, except that the enlisted badge was a silver color, while the officer badge is a gold or brass color. Source: http://www.navy.mil/swf/index.asp I think USN Enlisted pilots wore the same Gold wings as the USN Officer pilots. See the following thread. http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ind...enlisted+pilots Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfrost Posted November 7, 2011 Share #29 Posted November 7, 2011 I think USN Enlisted pilots wore the same Gold wings as the USN Officer pilots. See the following thread. http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ind...enlisted+pilots They did. Completing flight training and becoming designated a qualified pilot of a military aircraft allowed you to wear the gold naval aviator wings, and was not related to rank you held when the wings were earned. Simply put, gold wings indicated your status and training as a naval aviator. Your rank was indicated via different mechanisms, not in the color of the metal of the wings. Patrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim B Posted November 7, 2011 Share #30 Posted November 7, 2011 Thanks for the link to that old thead, that is an interesting discussion! :thumbsup: That is a problem with internet sources sometimes, without actually seeing a hard copy of the source, you never know if the information is complete and correctly transcribed. Thanks! Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rr01 Posted November 7, 2011 Share #31 Posted November 7, 2011 Interresting links thanks. In any event, Rafferty who died in the service of his country was a transport plane pilot not a fighter pilot, it is interresting that he carried over to the new Air Force and was allowed to retain fight status, I belielve this was a fair move on the part of the USAF. You're right and though he may have been a fighter pilot in WWII he was probably commissioned as a Reserve Officer. I had a school chum whose Father had been the same way in WWII but was a USAF MSgt in the early '60s. He still held a Reserve commission and would eventually retire at that rank but while on active duty he was a MSgt. Here's a link with a good long read that includes USMC NCOs flying fighters in the Pacific during WWII. http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USMC/USMC-C-Aces/index.html As someone posted earlier, this continues to be an interesting topic. I'm sure learning a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patches Posted November 8, 2011 Share #32 Posted November 8, 2011 You're right and though he may have been a fighter pilot in WWII he was probably commissioned as a Reserve Officer. I had a school chum whose Father had been the same way in WWII but was a USAF MSgt in the early '60s. He still held a Reserve commission and would eventually retire at that rank but while on active duty he was a MSgt.Here's a link with a good long read that includes USMC NCOs flying fighters in the Pacific during WWII. http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USMC/USMC-C-Aces/index.html As someone posted earlier, this continues to be an interesting topic. I'm sure learning a lot. Thanks,good links are coming up, seen only one NCO T/Sgt fogerty, he was a pre war aviator most likey, a long serving one too, probably cut his teeth in the banana wars of the 1930s. This was early in the war and had he lived he in all probabilty would have been commissioned.The Flying Chiefs of VF-2 too flew early in the war,however the unit was disbanded in mid 1942 the summer I gather, with most of them being commissioned and continuing to fly fighters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliffP Posted December 25, 2011 Share #33 Posted December 25, 2011 For those who enjoy doing research, here is the list of regular Army Enlisted pilots as of December 31, 1930: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cooper Posted December 25, 2011 Share #34 Posted December 25, 2011 Thanks Cliff for posting this as it is very helpful! Merry Christmas! John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliffP Posted December 29, 2011 Share #35 Posted December 29, 2011 Neat photos of Cpl. Vernon L. Burge, the first U.S. Army Enlisted Aviator circa 1912. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tenacious101010 Posted January 18, 2012 Share #36 Posted January 18, 2012 An indirect story relating to the subject at hand. The very first Army Air Force Aerobatic team was the "Three men on a Flying trapeze. Two of the three pilots were enlisted men. The enlisted men (Sgt John "Luke" Williamson and Sgt William C. McDonald )wore lieutenants bars when performing, but were actiually NCOs. Their flight team leader was an officer, but despite his many requests to award the men a comission, it was always turned down. One of the things they would do during a performance was to tie their 3 planes together with about 12 feet separating the aircraft from wingtip to wingtip. They would start their engines, taxi out, fly their routine, land and taxi back all while tied together. An amazingly scary performance in my opinion. The last performance of this group was in Florida. In the audience watching their final performance was representatives of the Chinese government. All three of the pilots ended up geting out of the Army Air Corps and traveled to China to become part of the Legendary " American Volunteer Group. The leader of the flying team was was none other than Claire Chennault. Denny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FtrPlt Posted January 21, 2012 Share #37 Posted January 21, 2012 As already noted, the bulk of enlisted pilots during WW2 were assigned to liaison and service squadrons. However, there was at least one instance of enlisted pilots being posted to fighter squadrons. Harding Field (Baton Rouge, LA) recorded the arrival of 93 Sergeant pilots in April 1942. They were assigned to the 82nd Pursuit Group (operating P-38s) and equally divided up into the 95th, 96th, and 97th Pursuit Squadrons. Training was completed in summer, 1942. Most of the pilots were commissioned as 2LTs by September 1942. The British/Commonwealth air forces had large numbers of Sgt pilots. The Luftwaffe also had very large numbers of enlisted pilots. I'm not sure about the Russians or Japanese. A few footnotes: The USAF has had exactly two Sergeant pilots in its entire history (does not included former pilots serving in non-flying roles). MSGT Tom Rafferty was killed in a C-47 crash in 1949, leaving MSGT George Holmes as only remaining NCO pilot in USAF history. His retirement in 1957 ended the era of USAF NCO pilots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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