Jump to content

When you become a Chief Petty Officer...


dg0223
 Share

Recommended Posts

And, there is the fact that we read regs much more and more closley than active duty Navy guys do. Most really don't know what the rega are. With the "E-10"s, those guys were making things up as they went along, and then writing regs to go along with what they were doing.

 

Steve Hesson

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To make it even more confusing ad the warfare badge afterwards.

for instance on one sub i was on we had a senior chief sonarman. which used to be sts on subs. stg on surface. also he was surface warfare qualed and was a diver so his offcial title was

stscs (ss)(sw)(dv).

Andy

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...
VirtualMariner

I know this is an old thread, but I came across it and thought it might be interesting. As it turns out, I'm not sure I understand a fraction of what was said. :blink:

 

I don't know much about Fleet Master Chiefs, Master Chiefs of the Navy and so forth, because I had no business being around those people. I did know a Command Master Chief or two, however, and I'm not sure what all this talk about rating badges is about. Are we saying that a Command Master Chief has a different rating badge by virtue of being the Command Master Chief? If so, when did this practice begin?

 

The stars above a Chief's insignia don't mean he's a command anything. One star means Senior Chief, two stars means Master Chief. If he's the Command Master Chief, he'll have a badge type device on the front of his uniform saying so. Otherwise, his uniform looks no different than any other Master Chief of the same rating. At least that's the way it used to be.

 

Or am I missing something?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I know this is an old thread, but I came across it and thought it might be interesting. As it turns out, I'm not sure I understand a fraction of what was said. :blink:

 

I don't know much about Fleet Master Chiefs, Master Chiefs of the Navy and so forth, because I had no business being around those people. I did know a Command Master Chief or two, however, and I'm not sure what all this talk about rating badges is about. Are we saying that a Command Master Chief has a different rating badge by virtue of being the Command Master Chief? If so, when did this practice begin?

 

The stars above a Chief's insignia don't mean he's a command anything. One star means Senior Chief, two stars means Master Chief. If he's the Command Master Chief, he'll have a badge type device on the front of his uniform saying so. Otherwise, his uniform looks no different than any other Master Chief of the same rating. At least that's the way it used to be.

 

Or am I missing something?

 

In 1981 regulations provided that Command Master Chiefs would wear a silver star (point down) specialty mark instead of the mark of their designated rating. This would only be seen on SD Blues, of course, or now on the khaki coat I guess.

 

Justin B.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

VirtualMariner
In 1981 regulations provided that Command Master Chiefs would wear a silver star (point down) specialty mark instead of the mark of their designated rating. This would only be seen on SD Blues, of course, or now on the khaki coat I guess.

 

Justin B.

 

Wow. Senility must be setting in, because I don't remember my Command Master Chiefs (or seeing any others)wearing that. I even went back through cruise books, etc. to see what they were wearing, but they're all in whites in those pictures. Of course, tradition trumps regulation throughout most of Navy history, so what someone was wearing and what they should have been wearing aren't necessarily the same thing. Even in notoriously uptight Norfolk, what flew shipboard wouldn't necessarily fly ashore.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I know this is an old thread, but I came across it and thought it might be interesting. As it turns out, I'm not sure I understand a fraction of what was said. :blink:

 

I don't know much about Fleet Master Chiefs, Master Chiefs of the Navy and so forth, because I had no business being around those people. I did know a Command Master Chief or two, however, and I'm not sure what all this talk about rating badges is about. Are we saying that a Command Master Chief has a different rating badge by virtue of being the Command Master Chief? If so, when did this practice begin?

 

The stars above a Chief's insignia don't mean he's a command anything. One star means Senior Chief, two stars means Master Chief. If he's the Command Master Chief, he'll have a badge type device on the front of his uniform saying so. Otherwise, his uniform looks no different than any other Master Chief of the same rating. At least that's the way it used to be.

 

Or am I missing something?

Virtual, The CMC has had a special rating badge for about 30+ years for their dress blues. Looks like a regular Master Chief crow with another inverted silver star under the eagle where a rate mark would be. As you go up from CMC, things change, stars get added, change color, that sort of thing. Again, nothing for us mere mortals to have concerned ourselves with.

 

Yes, they do in fact wear a badge on all uniforms which is what we all saw all the time when we would be graced with their exaulted presence. (Any one picking up a "tone" here)?

 

I left in '99. At that time, some commands had Senior Chiefs filling the billit. Ther were refered to as "Senior Enlisted Advisors" or "SEAs". Filled the same positionas CMCs, and had the same authority.

 

Speaking of all the warfare qual badges that follow, my sister CTICS, just was awarded another. It is CT specific, IDWS. So, now, she is CTICS (SW, AW, XPWS, IDWS), Surface Warfare Specialist, Air Warfare Specialist, Expidetionary Warfare Specialist, and Information Warfare Dominance Specialist. She wears the SW on top and now the IDWS. The other two just lay in a box. Her husband (CTRCS) has those and NAC as he was formerly an AD and flew Air Crew (still flys, just as a CT). Sis is in a command that is 90% aviation and has a flight suit she wears when she travels on Naval Air Craft. She has her SW badge on the name plate because it annoys the Airdales. She is authorized to wear brown shoes, but refuses as she is a Black Shoe from a family of Black Shoes.

 

Steve Hesson

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wow. Senility must be setting in, because I don't remember my Command Master Chiefs (or seeing any others)wearing that. I even went back through cruise books, etc. to see what they were wearing, but they're all in whites in those pictures. Of course, tradition trumps regulation throughout most of Navy history, so what someone was wearing and what they should have been wearing aren't necessarily the same thing. Even in notoriously uptight Norfolk, what flew shipboard wouldn't necessarily fly ashore.

That too. I had several CMCs who never bothered to change their crows from their real rate. They were going to retire after that tour and just didn't see the point in buying a new crow when they might only wear thier dress blues once during the tour. And, they were the CMC, who's going to say anything?

 

Steve Hesson

Link to comment
Share on other sites

VirtualMariner
Speaking of all the warfare qual badges that follow, my sister CTICS, just was awarded another. It is CT specific, IDWS. So, now, she is CTICS (SW, AW, XPWS, IDWS), Surface Warfare Specialist, Air Warfare Specialist, Expidetionary Warfare Specialist, and Information Warfare Dominance Specialist. She wears the SW on top and now the IDWS. The other two just lay in a box. Her husband (CTRCS) has those and NAC as he was formerly an AD and flew Air Crew (still flys, just as a CT). Sis is in a command that is 90% aviation and has a flight suit she wears when she travels on Naval Air Craft. She has her SW badge on the name plate because it annoys the Airdales. She is authorized to wear brown shoes, but refuses as she is a Black Shoe from a family of Black Shoes.

 

Steve Hesson

 

The warfare pins have become more numerous and, IMHO, less meaningful since I was in. Once they made it mandatory to get SW qualed aboard ship, I have to assume they got gun decked the same way the now obsolete PQS system was. I understand you don't have to go in front of a board anymore, for one thing. Getting an SW or AW pin was relatively tough in my active duty days. I knew a few PO2's with them, but most people were at least a First Class when they got their qual. When I got off active duty, I hadn't yet completed my SW qual. In the Reserves it was a dead issue. In the mid-90's, they didn't have the money to send us near a ship (which is why I cut my career short). I knew more about the Arleigh Burke from sharing a pier with her, than I did from when I was attached to a Burke Detachment in the Reserves.

 

Given the missions and make-up of the contemporary Navy, I do like the notion of the Expeditionary Warfare pin. That one makes sense to me, though I assume it is achieved with the same lower standards process as the others are now. My favorite warfare pin back in the day, though, was the one worn by one of the officers on the staff of COMPHIBGRU 2. Not only was he their Chaplain, but he also boasted the golden eagle and trident of a Navy Seal. Talk about "kill them all and let God sort 'em out". We always thought it was funny, but he seemed like a really a good guy and a likeable officer.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The warfare pins have become more numerous and, IMHO, less meaningful since I was in. Once they made it mandatory to get SW qualed aboard ship, I have to assume they got gun decked the same way the now obsolete PQS system was. I understand you don't have to go in front of a board anymore, for one thing. Getting an SW or AW pin was relatively tough in my active duty days. I knew a few PO2's with them, but most people were at least a First Class when they got their qual. When I got off active duty, I hadn't yet completed my SW qual. In the Reserves it was a dead issue. In the mid-90's, they didn't have the money to send us near a ship (which is why I cut my career short). I knew more about the Arleigh Burke from sharing a pier with her, than I did from when I was attached to a Burke Detachment in the Reserves.

 

Given the missions and make-up of the contemporary Navy, I do like the notion of the Expeditionary Warfare pin. That one makes sense to me, though I assume it is achieved with the same lower standards process as the others are now. My favorite warfare pin back in the day, though, was the one worn by one of the officers on the staff of COMPHIBGRU 2. Not only was he their Chaplain, but he also boasted the golden eagle and trident of a Navy Seal. Talk about "kill them all and let God sort 'em out". We always thought it was funny, but he seemed like a really a good guy and a likeable officer.

The warfare quals is sort of a command thing. I know what you mean, some places, it is pretty much a give away (like the Navy Achievement Medal). I was at a shore command in '79 and it was simpley given to all CPOs there. Service record entry and your qualled. My sister had to sit through boards for all of hers (I sat the SW board 3 times before they qualed me). For her expiditionaly warfare qual, she was in Iraq assigned to Naval Special Warfare. She had to be familuer with all the weapons assigned (how to operate and clear emergency actions), set up fighting positions (Yeah, they made her dig holes , fill sand bags and clear fields of fire) and other "stuff".. She sits on boards for everything she's qualled for. She's just always been that "Over Achiever" we all knew once.

 

Steve Hesson

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

There's another one that I hadn't thought of in the diagram. A post-tour Master Chief Petty Officer of the Fleet/Force serving as a Command Master Chief. The same rate as the MCPOF with the inverted silver star of the Command Master Chief.

 

I'll figure out these E-10 ratings yet. Or maybe I won't.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

She is authorized to wear brown shoes, but refuses as she is a Black Shoe from a family of Black Shoes.

 

 

Your sister sounds cool! :thumbsup: (At least coming from a former blackshoe!) :thumbsup:

 

The ESWS qual is very command-dependent. However, when I worked at COMNAVSURFLANT, I worked with a FCCM who was responsible for updating the PQS requirements for the ESWS, and he did an exceptional job of it. Part of this was making it more robust. Of course, you could ask the guys who went through the program on most ships and they'd probably tell you it was sufficiently robust as it was. On my last ship, ESWS candidates had to go through a First Class board, and then through the Chief's Board to get qualified...so two separate boards. It was also only required for E-5 and above who had been onboard for 18 months or longer. However, I made it mandatory for all of my Sailors - E-3 and above - who had been onboard for 18 months (I didn't have anyone below an E-3 as WEPS/CSO). In fact, failure to earn it as an E-5 with 18 months was an automatic negative evaluation. Harsh, but it made people get their butts in gear to do it. It wasn't THAT hard to do...but they did have to put out some effort outside their comfort zone of their workcenter and division. The one thing that did make the qualification painful was that Sailors had to requalify unit-specific ESWS when they reported to a new command. Basically, they had to redo their boards each time they moved from ship to ship. Ouch!

 

Being a SWO, I was never really familiar with the other warfare quals - or at least their path to qualification. One thing that did frustrate me was when we had air detachments embarked...the aviation guys could earn their AW quals while underway from their AIRDET, and they could earn their ESWS qual from the ship...but my guys couldn't earn their AW quals from the AIRDET. Didn't think that was too fair...but that's just me.

 

Dave

Link to comment
Share on other sites

VirtualMariner
Being a SWO, I was never really familiar with the other warfare quals - or at least their path to qualification. One thing that did frustrate me was when we had air detachments embarked...the aviation guys could earn their AW quals while underway from their AIRDET, and they could earn their ESWS qual from the ship...but my guys couldn't earn their AW quals from the AIRDET. Didn't think that was too fair...but that's just me.

 

Dave

 

What kind of ship was that?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What kind of ship was that?

 

That was when I was on the USS GARY and USS THACH - both FFGs. My later ships were DDGs...no AIRDET to deal with (sometimes good, sometimes bad!) :rolleyes:

 

Dave

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here's a quick visual aid for the top rates/posts and their rating badges, with the year of authorization:

 

post-3982-1321824313.png

Justin B.

 

One note to ad, Since the establishment of the CMDCM rating there won't be any more post-tour MCPON/Fleet Master Chief rating badges.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

VirtualMariner
That was when I was on the USS GARY and USS THACH - both FFGs. My later ships were DDGs...no AIRDET to deal with (sometimes good, sometimes bad!) :rolleyes:

 

Dave

 

Gotcha. While I see where it might stink that your guys couldn't get AW qualified from the AIRDET people, I do also see an argument for why it would be that way. On a flight deck ship, that's not really an issue, because you have a large, internal air department, as well as the SW crew, so everyone has the opportunity to qualify at both. When we had embarked units, some of those guys would really scramble to get both done in a single deployment. It was tough, but some accomplished it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

One note to ad, Since the establishment of the CMDCM rating there won't be any more post-tour MCPON/Fleet Master Chief rating badges.

 

 

Brian:

 

I thought there still was a loophole that allowed that, because I think the rating badge is not yet OBE. Not like it would happen, of course (and I doubt it ever has), but in a purely hypothetical sense, I think it's still possible? I'm ready to stand corrected though...

 

I do know that CMDCMs can go back to their original rate...I saw it happen to a guy at my last command. Of course, he was stripped of being a CMDCM and forced to retire, but still... :pinch:

 

Dave

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Gotcha. While I see where it might stink that your guys couldn't get AW qualified from the AIRDET people, I do also see an argument for why it would be that way. On a flight deck ship, that's not really an issue, because you have a large, internal air department, as well as the SW crew, so everyone has the opportunity to qualify at both. When we had embarked units, some of those guys would really scramble to get both done in a single deployment. It was tough, but some accomplished it.

 

 

On my CG, the Air Det OIC afforded the opportunity for ship's company to get AW qualified during our 1988 deployment. Only one crew member achieved it.

 

ESWS was a very challenging program on that ship as well. Seldom did anyone pass their board on the first try. Most had to board at least twice. They were lengthy affairs lasting several hours per sailor. It was a rigorous program.

 

On the AOE (my follow-on tour), the ESWS program was a mere rubber stamp affair. I was floored. Guys were getting their pins with no effort. The sailors couldn't remember basic details about the ship days after being awarded their pins.

 

When people came to CIC to get sign-offs for their books (on the AOE), they did so when I was not on CICWO as they'd spend my entire watch and maybe obtain one or two signatures. I followed the program to the letter as I placed high value on it. JOs looking for SWO quals were very appreciative of my attitude toward that as they became solid SWOs in ship-handling and maneuvering because I held them accountable with the CIC components.

 

Through my shipmates and brother-in-law (retired LCDR mustang), I have learned that the rigors of ESWS have long passed with the mandatory nature of the program...which is sad. I do realize that this varies from each command.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dave,

 

I looked in the Milpersman and I don't think there is a provision for reverting back to a previous rating from CMDCM other than disciplinary actions.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dave,

 

I looked in the Milpersman and I don't think there is a provision for reverting back to a previous rating from CMDCM other than disciplinary actions.

 

Roger! I guess if someone ever got to that point, people would probably flail to figure out what to do. It was pretty much a flail-ex just removing the CMDCM rate from the guy who went to mast! Not a common occurrence!

 

Dave

Link to comment
Share on other sites

However, I made it mandatory for all of my Sailors - E-3 and above - who had been onboard for 18 months (I didn't have anyone below an E-3 as WEPS/CSO). In fact, failure to earn it as an E-5 with 18 months was an automatic negative evaluation. Harsh, but it made people get their butts in gear to do it. It wasn't THAT hard to do...but they did have to put out some effort outside their comfort zone of their workcenter and division.

 

Dave,

I am not trying to stir the pot here, but I believe making the warfare quals mandatory was a mistake. I believe that personal initiatve was required when the programs were voluntary. The people who went out and earned their badges before it became mandatory were hard chargers and highly motivated. That personal initiative and high motivation was taken away and negated when the quals became mandatory. It also has had an adverse effect of cheapening the qualification itself. This is of course my humble opinion based upon my personal experiences.

 

Chris

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dave,

I am not trying to stir the pot here, but I believe making the warfare quals mandatory was a mistake. I believe that personal initiatve was required when the programs were voluntary. The people who went out and earned their badges before it became mandatory were hard chargers and highly motivated. That personal initiative and high motivation was taken away and negated when the quals became mandatory. It also has had an adverse effect of cheapening the qualification itself. This is of course my humble opinion based upon my personal experiences.

 

Chris

 

Chris,

 

I am wondering if the idea of making it mandatory stems from the submarine community with regards to the dolphins. For bubbleheads, it has been quite a successful approach. But I am with you that it hasn't yielded the same results for the surface community.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dave,

I am not trying to stir the pot here, but I believe making the warfare quals mandatory was a mistake. I believe that personal initiatve was required when the programs were voluntary. The people who went out and earned their badges before it became mandatory were hard chargers and highly motivated. That personal initiative and high motivation was taken away and negated when the quals became mandatory. It also has had an adverse effect of cheapening the qualification itself. This is of course my humble opinion based upon my personal experiences.

 

Chris

 

 

Chris,

 

Honestly, I completely agree. It would be a good "culling" process for promotion...don't get a qual, don't get promoted. Easy. (Of course, it wouldn't quite be like that, but a warfare qual would have a MUCH greater weight for a promotion board than not...showing the person's initiative to do something completely voluntary.)

 

Unfortunately, the policy "from above" made it mandatory...and because of that, I personally made it mandatory for all of my Sailors to get it done ahead of everyone else. It's the whole thought process of when everyone has one...it's the person who gets it done quicker and better than the other guy that's the one that stands out from their peers.

 

Dave

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...