When you become a Chief Petty Officer...

[dg0223]

Let's say I was in the Navy, and I was a BM1, a Bosuns Mate, First Class. If I ever made Chief Petty Officer, would I then be a BMC, or would I be a Chief Bosuns Mate? Would I then continue up the ranks as a BMCS, being a Senior Chief, and a BMCM, being a Master Chief?

 

I would assume I would continue wearing my crossed anchors as a rating underneath my crow all the way through Master Chief. However, I saw some other ranks, particularly Command Master Chief, Fleet Master Chief, and Force Master Chief that have the rating replaced with an inverted silver star beneath the crow. Would I go back to my crossed BM anchors after I was no longer a Command Master Chief?

 

I know MCPON wears the inverted silver star beneath his crow as well, but he wears three stars above his crow as opposed to the two stars a Master Chief wears.

 

Too many Chief questions...not enough indian ones. I've always tried to decode the E-9 pay grade, but there always seems to be so many different types of senior enlisted positions to decipher.

[Dave]

MAN...I so USED to know the answer to this! I've got a 50% chance of being right, but IIRC, a post CMC/FLTCM/FORCM would wear the rate again instead of the star. It's in the regulations, and I've read it before...I just can't remember for sure what it was. It's one of those "trivia" things though...it is VERY VERY VERY rare to find a CMC/FLTCM/FORCM who goes back to their rate. Typically, if they don't like the CMC (etc.) job, they retire. It USED to be that they could get a commission...that's what happened to my very first CMC (though back then they still maintained their rate - he was an EMCM). They have since closed that option though.

 

Standing by to be corrected by someone with references in front of them... LOL

 

Dave

[Dave]

Let's say I was in the Navy, and I was a BM1, a Bosuns Mate, First Class. If I ever made Chief Petty Officer, would I then be a BMC, or would I be a Chief Bosuns Mate? Would I then continue up the ranks as a BMCS, being a Senior Chief, and a BMCM, being a Master Chief?

 

I would assume I would continue wearing my crossed anchors as a rating underneath my crow all the way through Master Chief. However, I saw some other ranks, particularly Command Master Chief, Fleet Master Chief, and Force Master Chief that have the rating replaced with an inverted silver star beneath the crow. Would I go back to my crossed BM anchors after I was no longer a Command Master Chief?

 

I know MCPON wears the inverted silver star beneath his crow as well, but he wears three stars above his crow as opposed to the two stars a Master Chief wears.

 

Too many Chief questions...not enough indian ones. I've always tried to decode the E-9 pay grade, but there always seems to be so many different types of senior enlisted positions to decipher.

 

 

To answer your other questions...

 

1. You'd be a "Chief Boatswains Mate" but also the BMC and "Boats" and "Chief" and "That crusty SOB" (amongst others...) I have also seen award certificates with the rate going the other way... "Boatswains Mate Chief John J. Smith" but when I was editing them on the admiral's staff, they were always "Chief Boatswains Mate John J. Smith".

 

2. Answered that question in my other post.

 

3. Yep, the MCPON does.

 

4. E-9 has become a very "political" paygrade. Back in "the day", they were just your super salty experts on their rate. Nowadays, many of them go much more into the command leadership roles. Some of these guys are very political (lots of infighting amongst the "top dogs") and some of them are fabulous people. The FORCM I worked with on my last tour was an incredible gentleman and I would work with him anytime, anywhere again.

 

Dave

[Golem]

I'm not familiar with Navy enlisted ranks, can we get some pix of what y'all are talking about?

 

Thanks.

[Dave]

Just when there's a rule for everything (including CMCs changing their rate to CMDCM and thus getting the star on their rate) here's a CMC who retained his original rating...I'm sure there's an explanation for it, but this one is new to me...

 

Dave

[67Rally]

Just when there's a rule for everything (including CMCs changing their rate to CMDCM and thus getting the star on their rate) here's a CMC who retained his original rating...I'm sure there's an explanation for it, but this one is new to me...

 

Dave

 

That photo could predate his selection as the CMDCM and they haven't updated the site with his current shot. You know how slow those PR guys can be at getting this stuff coordinated between the subject, the photographer and the web guy. :thumbsup:

[Dave]

And here's the answer, out of Navy Regs:

 

http://www.public.navy.mil/bupers-npc/supp...Pages/4211.aspx

[Dave]

That photo could predate his selection as the CMDCM and they haven't updated the site with his current shot. You know how slow those PR guys can be at getting this stuff coordinated between the subject, the photographer and the web guy. :thumbsup:

 

 

My guess is that he's filling a collateral duty CMC billet instead of a full time billet and does not hold the 9579 or 9580 NEC. That makes sense now! IIRC, the Navy component has to be over 200 (or is it 250?) to rate a CMC. If less, they can still have a CMC, but it will be a collateral duty position.

 

Dave

[67Rally]

...the Navy component has to be over 200 (or is it 250?) to rate a CMC. If less, they can still have a CMC, but it will be a collateral duty position.

 

Dave

 

That's not including afloat commands/vessels, right? IIRC, all afloat CMC billets are filled by those designated NECs with the exception of temporary assignments or emergency back-filling of the billet.

[Dave]

That's not including afloat commands/vessels, right? IIRC, all afloat CMC billets are filled by those designated NECs with the exception of temporary assignments or emergency back-filling of the billet.

 

Here's the answer! (I LOVE google!)

 

From: http://www.navy.mil/navydata/mcpon/cmcinst.html

 

1. Fleet Master Chief (FLTMC), Force Master Chief (FORMC), and Chief of Naval Operations-Directed Command Master Chief (CNOMC) assignments are limited to the activities listed in Tab A.

 

2. FLTMC, FORMC, and CNOMC assignments and the composition of the CNO/Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy Senior Enlisted Leadership Forum are made at CNO's discretion. CNO and MCPON review these requirements annually.

 

3. CNOMCs may be assigned to designated Commanders who, 1) report directly to the CNO, or 2) whose command responsibilities include significant regional area coordination or other unique dimensions (see Tab A of enclosure (1)).

 

4. Command Master Chief billets not directed by CNO are determined as follows:

 

a. All commands with enlisted manpower authorization of 250 or greater will have a Command Master Chief billet. A CMDMC billet authorization will not normally be programmed against the requirement until total enlisted authorizations are 250 or greater. Major manpower claimants or resource sponsors will provide a CMDMC billet for Commander In Chief staffs with less than 250 manpower requirements. Additionally, the following activities will be allocated a CMDMC billet regardless of size: Aviation Type Wing staffs, Carrier-based Air Wing (CVW) squadrons and staffs, deployable Helicopter Antisubmarine Warfare Light (HSL) squadrons, Helicopter Combat Support (HC) squadrons, Maritime Patrol (VP) squadrons, Naval Construction Training Centers/Regiments (Gulfport, MS and Port Hueneme, CA), Naval Construction Battalion Centers, Naval Transient Personnel Units, Submarine Squadron Support Units, Dry Docks, Regional Support Organizations, Submarine Groups and Squadrons, Shore Intermediate Maintenance Activities (SIMA), Regional Support Groups (RSG), Fast Frigates (FFG), Naval Special Warfare Groups, Naval Special Warfare Center, Special Boat Squadrons, SEAL Teams, SEAL Delivery Teams, Special Boat Units, and Shipyards. Fleet Logistics Support Squadrons with 200 or more enlisted billets, will also have a Command Master Chief billet. All Naval facilities where ships or submarines are homeported or overhauled who have major host-tenant responsibilities and a manpower base of less than 250 may request a waiver to obtain a Command Master Chief billet. Component activities (Activity Unit Identification Codes (AUICs)) within a common Primary Unit Identification Code (PUIC) which are geographically collocated may be included at the PUIC level to make the determination. In the submarine force, CMC responsibilities are assumed by the Chief of the Boat (COB) (NEC 9579). The COB must meet the qualification and suitability requirements outlined in this instruction.

 

b. Commands with less than 250 enlisted personnel authorized shall assign a Command Master Chief from within command resources on a collateral duty basis. In the absence of a Master Chief Petty Officer (MCPO), a Senior Chief Petty Officer (SCPO) or Chief Petty Officer (CPO) may be assigned. All collateral duty Master, Senior, or Chief Petty Officers must meet all requirements contained in Section C, paragraph 1.a. Collateral Duty Command Master Chiefs will retain their source rating designation.

[Dave]

This answers an earlier question too:

 

a. With the exception of SCPO Chief of the Boat, a rating badge with a silver star in place of rating specialty mark will be worn by CNOMCs, CMDMCs, and COBs other than those serving in collateral duty status, incumbent and post tour, detailed to CNOMC/CMC/COB billets as prescribed in Navy Uniform Regulations, NAVPERS 15665H. The appropriate (Fleet, Force, Command) identification badge (breast insignia) will be worn by individuals assigned as a Primary Duty Command Master Chief by CNPC or NAVRESPERCEN. Commands with a designated collateral duty Command Master Chief, Command Senior Chief, or Command Chief will wear the appropriate Command Master/Senior/Chief badge. The post tour miniature-sized insignia, is also authorized for these Master Chiefs, Senior Chiefs, or Chiefs who successfully complete a collateral duty assignment of no less than 12 months and were designated in writing by the Commanding Officer of that particular command (unless administratively removed).

[67Rally]

I like how the regulatation calls out FFGs as their crews are definitely less than the 250 requirement and that was what I was drawing on from experience. My brother-in-law's FFGs all had CMCs with the star rating badge.

 

I recall specifically as the last ship where my BiL was CHENG, I came aboard for the tiger cruise and met with the CMC who was an OS (like me). We had served with many of the same guys in the years past...anyway, he wore the star on his blues rather than the OS specialty mark.

[Dave]

And why this might happen:

 

SECTION I — NEC REMOVAL/ADMINISTRATIVE REASSIGNMENT

 

1. Primary Duty CMCs/COBs must maintain suitability and qualifications, including worldwide assignment eligibility, as outlined in this instruction. Those who do not maintain eligibility standards shall be processed for retirement or Fleet Reserve, or if not eligible, a change of rating and/or removal of 9580/9579 NEC as applicable, and will be issued Temporary Administrative Assignment (TAD) orders to ISIC/TYCOM to await further assignment at sea.

 

....................

 

b. Change of rating is mandatory for: A Detachment for Cause (DFC) or a loss of confidence in the ability to perform duties as a CMDMC/Naval Reserve Primary Duty CMC/COB. Utilize Tab C of enclosure (1) for request and/or notification process.

 

(1) Individuals whose rating is changed or NEC removed due to the above situations, and are eligible for Fleet Reserve or Retirement, should submit a request to transfer to same, effective within 90 days of formal change of rating or completion of legal proceedings.

 

(2) Individuals who are not Fleet Reserve, reenlistment, or retirement eligible shall be reverted to their previous rating detailer for immediate reassignment to the highest priority billet, based on MCPON and detailer coordination.

 

(3) If desired, individuals whose rating is administratively changed may apply for reinstatement into the CMC Program after two years at their next command per the procedures contained in Section C of this instruction.

 

(4) Individuals whose rating is administratively changed are not authorized to retain the CMDMC rating badge, nor are they allowed to wear the Post Tour CMC badge.

 

(5) Commanders and Commanding Officers may request reassignment of their CMDMC/Naval Reserve Primary Duty CMC/COB due to extenuating circumstances (not listed above). These personnel may be allowed to retain the CMDMC rating, based on coordination and desires of the ISIC/TYCOM, detailer, and MCPON.

[Dave]

I like how the regulatation calls out FFGs as their crews are definitely less than the 250 requirement and that was what I was drawing on from experience. My brother-in-law's FFGs all had CMCs with the star rating badge.

 

I recall specifically as the last ship where my BiL was CHENG, I came aboard for the tiger cruise and met with the CMC who was an OS (like me). We had served with many of the same guys in the years past...anyway, he wore the star on his blues rather than the OS designation.

 

How long ago was that? Most FFGs now have Command Senior Chiefs, and I know of several with Command Chiefs. There may still be a few out there with CMCs, but they're pretty few and far between. When I was on FFGs back in 1999-2001, we had CMCs, but we also had a 250 man crew...

 

Dave

[67Rally]

How long ago was that? Most FFGs now have Command Senior Chiefs, and I know of several with Command Chiefs. There may still be a few out there with CMCs, but they're pretty few and far between. When I was on FFGs back in 1999-2001, we had CMCs, but we also had a 250 man crew...

 

Dave

 

This was in 2001.

[dg0223]

Realistically, how many post-tour MCPONs are there? Wouldn't they, in all likelihood, retire? Or has there been a MCPON that has returned to his previous assignment? That would be an interesting rate to see, as the regs state he would wear a gold specialty mark instead of the star.

 

And I just read it in more detail. There's gold stars, and silver stars. Good thing I'm getting this squared away. I was thinking about collecting modern chief ratings, but I don't think I'll be able to get them all.

 

[Dave]

This was in 2001.

 

 

Ahhh...the days before "optimal manning" (or, as some say: "Make more bricks with less straw!")

 

:pinch: :pinch:

[Dave]

Realistically, how many post-tour MCPONs are there? Wouldn't they, in all likelihood, retire? Or has there been a MCPON that has returned to his previous assignment? That would be an interesting rate to see, as the regs state he would wear a gold specialty mark instead of the star.

 

And I just read it in more detail. There's gold stars, and silver stars. Good thing I'm getting this squared away. I was thinking about collecting modern chief ratings, but I don't think I'll be able to get them all.

 

 

 

It's actually not that complex. Once you get up to the FORCM, FLTCM, and MCPON ranks, you just get one of each patch. 3 patches and done!

 

As far as a MCPON going back to his rate, I don't think it's happened before (unless I'm not remembering someone...)

 

Dave

[dg0223]

I guess the hard ones would be getting the post-tour MCPON and post tour FORCM and FLTCM ratings. But, oh well, here goes nothing. Here goes another arm of my collecting octopus...

[Dave]

I guess the hard ones would be getting the post-tour MCPON and post tour FORCM and FLTCM ratings. But, oh well, here goes nothing. Here goes another arm of my collecting octopus...

 

They might not exist - at least in the "ready to buy off the shelf" sense. Even as a FORCM, I know the guy I worked with had to have his white one custom made as it somehow wasn't commercially available at the time. I think all the female FORCM/FLTCM ones are custom made.

 

Dave

[Jack's Son]

My hat is off to all of you that can understand all of the ("initials of rank") in this thread!! :thumbsup:

 

i'm l.o.s.t. ???

[SEABEEBRIAN]

Just as an FYI, there are no more CNOMCs.

[Jack's Son]

Just as an FYI, there are no more CNOMCs.

I'M SHOCKED!!!

[hink441]

The second MCPON was Jack Whittet, Master Chief Whittet served one more year after his completed MCPON tour. He reverted back to his previous E-9 rate.

The following is from; http://www.quarterdeck.org/WindsOfChange/0...k%20Whittet.htm

 

Almost midway through his tour as MCPON, Whittet took the CNO up on his offer in Z-108 to allow “well-qualified senior petty officers” continuation of service beyond 30 years. On January 16, 1973 he reenlisted for six more years. The press release announcing the event, held in the CNO’s office, said Whittet felt he still had a “great deal to offer the Navy.”

 

“I don’t think a career Navy man should automatically feel that he has served out his usefulness to the service at the end of 30 years,” the release quoted Whittet. “The Navy has done a lot for me and I think I still have a lot to contribute. That’s why I made the decision to reenlist for another six years.”

 

According to the release, Whittet would revert back to his rating of Master Chief Aircraft Maintenanceman when he left the MCPON office. But one year later, he changed to the new Master-at-Arms rating.

[Dave]

The second MCPON was Jack Whittet, Master Chief Whittet served one more year after his completed MCPON tour. He reverted back to his previous E-9 rate.

The following is from; http://www.quarterdeck.org/WindsOfChange/0...k%20Whittet.htm

 

That's a darn good article! Master Chief insignia aside, it's a fascinating view into Zumwalt's Navy. Thanks for the great read!!!

 

Dave