Is First Sergeant a rank or a position?

[seanmc1114]

I know that the Army and Marine Corps have separate insignia for First Sergeants. What I am curious about is whether it is actually a separate rank unto itself or if the particular insignia is only worn while a service member is acting in that capacity. In other words, can someone hold the rank of First Sergeant without acting as a First Sergeant which I believe is a specific position being the senior enlisted man in a company? I have seen references to the position of First Sergeant in the Army being filled by a Sergeant First Class or Master Sergeant.

[Teamski]

If it is like the USAF, it is a position, not a rank.

 

-Ski

[HoovieDude]

It is a position, with rank to indicate such. Once one leaves the position, he/she reverts back to Master Sergeant/ E-8 in the Army. ( Or Sergeant First Class/E-7 if he was "frocked" into the position or promotable and just waiting for his sequence number to come so he can pin on "8".)

[Jason G]

In the Marine Corps it's a rank.

 

Once reaching E-7 (GySgt) you have to decide (and sometimes it gets decided FOR you based on needs of the Corps, your MOS, etc) which 'track' you want to go....1stSgt/SgtMajor, or MSgt/Master Gunnery Sergeant. Once you pick that 'track', (and it's approved by HQMC), when you get selected for E-8, it'll be as either one or the other.

 

Once in that track, you don't revert back to MSgt or Master Gunny.

 

The difference?

 

Say you are an Infantry Gunny who wants to go 'First Shirt'. You get selected...and your next duty assignment is a Helicopter Squadron. You know 'jack' about helos...but you won't be considered a 'duty expert' on them, you'll be doing 'First shirt' duties.

 

However, if you elected to go Master Sergeant, more than likely, your next assignment would have been in an infantry unit someplace.

 

Same goes for any MOS, Intelligence, MP, Admin, doesn't matter. I've had 1stSgt's/SgtMaj's who were former Infantry (in the Air Wing), former Air Wing (In the Maint units) and so on.

[doyler]

WW2 had a different rank structure.If I recall correctly a First Sgt was a Rank in WW2.Having 3 stripes and 3 rockers and a diamond in the center.I believe this changed in 1955 and was an occupational title.

[dg0223]

This is exactly why I like visiting the forum on a regular basis. I am more of a Navy/Marine Corps collector, but I never knew about the two different tracks that would promote you to either a Sergeant Major or a Master Gunnery Sergeant.

 

I also didn't know you would move to a different rank whenever your duties changed in the Army when you were a First Sergeant. On campus, two of our JROTC instructors are First Sergeants. I always assumed that was their rank whenever they retired from active duty.

 

The Air Force First Sergeants also made me look up more info on what exactly they did.

 

You absolutely learn something new every day.

[Steve B.]

In WWII the Army insignia for First Sergeant was three stripes, TWO arcs and a diamond up until 1942 when the third arc was added, and the First Sergeant rank became a Grade 1 rank, which was the highest enlisted pay grade. When it just had two arcs, it was Grade 2, and Master Sergeants outranked First Sergeants which must have caused some interesting situations.

 

First Sergeant is a rank in the Army, but it depends upon being assigned to a First Sergeant position. When I was assigned to the position of First Sergeant, I was still a Master Sergeant until the orders were cut giving me the new rank. I am now retired, and official correspondence still is addressed to me with the rank of First Sergeant. I assume this is a courtesy since I am, obviously, no longer performing the duties of a First Sergeant.

 

Here is a link to The Institute of Heraldry's History of Enlisted Rank page that you might find interesting: http://www.tioh.hqda.pentagon.mil/Uniforme...ed_history.aspx

 

Hope this helps.

 

Steve

[carbinephalen]

I have a WWII uniform grouping that belonged to a 1st SGT in the 76th Infanty Division in the 417th Infantry Regiment. His discharge records indicate that he was actually discharged with the rank of 1st SGT. I'm not sure if this helps the discussion either way or not but I thought I'd throw it out there! He was discharged in October of 1945. :thumbsup:

[doyler]

In WWII the Army insignia for First Sergeant was three stripes, TWO arcs and a diamond up until 1942 when the third arc was added, and the First Sergeant rank became a Grade 1 rank, which was the highest enlisted pay grade. When it just had two arcs, it was Grade 2, and Master Sergeants outranked First Sergeants which must have caused some interesting situations.

 

First Sergeant is a rank in the Army, but it depends upon being assigned to a First Sergeant position. When I was assigned to the position of First Sergeant, I was still a Master Sergeant until the orders were cut giving me the new rank. I am now retired, and official correspondence still is addressed to me with the rank of First Sergeant. I assume this is a courtesy since I am, obviously, no longer performing the duties of a First Sergeant.

 

Here is a link to The Institute of Heraldry's History of Enlisted Rank page that you might find interesting: http://www.tioh.hqda.pentagon.mil/Uniforme...ed_history.aspx

 

Hope this helps.

 

Steve

 

Steve

Great info.

 

I have som stripes from the vet I mentioned.As I recal tere are both styles.RDl

[Justin B.]

I have a WWII uniform grouping that belonged to a 1st SGT in the 76th Infanty Division in the 417th Infantry Regiment. His discharge records indicate that he was actually discharged with the rank of 1st SGT. I'm not sure if this helps the discussion either way or not but I thought I'd throw it out there! He was discharged in October of 1945. :thumbsup:

 

I had an uncle who was a troop 1st Sgt in the 112th Cavalry/RCT, and was also discharged with that rank in '45. It also may be of interest that WW2 sergeants major (usually M/Sgt for regimental, T/Sgt for battalion) generally had the MOS of "administrative NCO," while a 1st Sergeant of a combat unit would have the appropriate MOS for that unit, "light weapons NCO" etc.

 

--Justin B.

[CW4AFB]

I'm kind of surprised nobody has brought up that other related Army tradition: the Field First.....In my experience in infantry units, the Field First Sergeant was usually a senior E7 who acted as the tactical lead for a unit in the field and generally handled facility upkeep and maintenence duties in garrison, thereby allowing the First Sergeant more time to perform his overall duties...anybody else have similar memories?

[JCFalkenbergIII]

I'm kind of surprised nobody has brought up that other related Army tradition: the Field First.....In my experience in infantry units, the Field First Sergeant was usually a senior E7 who acted as the tactical lead for a unit in the field and generally handled facility upkeep and maintenence duties in garrison, thereby allowing the First Sergeant more time to perform his overall duties...anybody else have similar memories?

 

 

I remember my father being listed as a "Platoon Sergeant" and wearing "Sergeant First Class Chevrons". Robert