Norden bombsight?

[mmerc20]

Out of curiosity, what would be a "good" price for a nice condition Norden bombsight? I found a dealer in a local antique mall who has one, but if I invested in it, I don't want to overpay.

 

Mike

[Sabrejet]

Amazing to think that this was once considered to be among the most secret / classified pieces of equipment by the US military...and now it's for sale in an antique mall?! Do they have an Enigma machine too?!

[doyler]

Out of curiosity, what would be a "good" price for a nice condition Norden bombsight? I found a dealer in a local antique mall who has one, but if I invested in it, I don't want to overpay.

 

Mike

 

 

Mike

 

They use to be spendy.A friend in Oklahoma told me a large lot of these were found in storage that were in new condition in a whare house in oklahoma city.This affected the price somewhat.

 

Then you have to consider how complete it is.I have passed up the top/head unit a couple times in the $350-$650 range as they were missing parts.There is on line sources for the Nordens.Also I think there was a site that showed the whole unit.With a little looking you may get an average price figured out.

 

Hope this helps

RD

[Dave]

Might not be able to help you with the value, but this is a website of incredible information about Nordens...

 

http://www.twinbeech.com/norden_bombsight.htm

[mmerc20]

This appeared to be the whole unit mounted on a wooden base. The dealer didn't actually have it in his case, just a nice photo and a small description mentioning he had it for sale.

 

No enigma that I could see although I did miss out on one awhile back! Some old guy walked into the military show I was set up at and proceeded through a couple tables trying to sell it. He didn't get too far before he heard a good price and left it with the new (dealer) owner.

[Cobrahistorian]

Also depends if it's a Navy or Army ones. Army ones have historically gone for significantly more.

[TJM]

So, how would one tell a Navy issue from a Army issue sight. Mine has a the original AAF log book from 45 through rebuild in 48, but has a small 1/4 inch painted anchor on the sight body. Came in an unopened USAF marked double cardboard box.

[Cobrahistorian]

So, how would one tell a Navy issue from a Army issue sight. Mine has a the original AAF log book from 45 through rebuild in 48, but has a small 1/4 inch painted anchor on the sight body. Came in an unopened USAF marked double cardboard box .

 

Navy ones are clearly marked BuAero and have US Navy stampings all over them. Sounds like yours may have gotten a replacement part from Navy stocks.

[piperl4]

I have 12 of them and have been buying and selling Nordens since the 70's when they were a couple hundred. Now I can hardly buy one for under 1500 and even at that it will be a rough one. I sell an average of 2 to 3 a month and ship them all over the world. The interest in Nordens has really gone up over the past couple years which has driven the price up. heguns.com is where I have some of the ones I have listed. Ebay has been the cheapest way I have seen to get a Norden by far. I have seen one that would go for 2000 on the open market go for just over a thousand on Ebay as it is only a 5 second snip auction anyway. Most people do not even know what they have be it a Mark IV or VI or 9 they all run close to the same now. The Navy retained control of the issueing of Nordens through the war and while some were marked US Air Forces somewhere there will be a navy anchor stamped onto the sight. One thing to be careful of is after the war they took most of the data plates off to demill them and guys then found data plates from the stabilizers and put on them so look at the right end and there should be a white 4 digit stamp with the serial number. That should be the same number that is on the data plate. Do not expect the serial number on the platter to match as they got changed out so often that the chances of matching are slim. If you come across a stabilizer which is what the bombsight mounted to then you have a real gold mine as the ratio of stabilizers on the market to bombsights is about 100 to 1. You also have to consider if it has a X1 reflex sight on it as that pumps the cost and value up another couple hundred bucks. Contrary to what has been written in a couple places you cannot just take a X1 sight and put it on a standard Norden as it requires the gear box to be in the bombsight. So if you want a really cool display you would want the stabilizer with the Norden mounted on it and then the X1 reflex head sitting on top the bombsight. That makes a really cool looking display. Finding parts for the on an individual basis is almost impossible and even the 3 7/17 glass so you can see the levels is hard to find unless you have some cut like I ended up doing as I had some with cracked glass. If the levels are missing the value goes way down on them and the only replacements for them come from Warbirds down in FL. The problem with his levels is they are not lit and when he had them made they were under stress so vertually everyone of them cracked and the fluid leaked out. So bottom line is if you find one for just over a thousand I would grab it, any less and you are getting a real bargin. I get a number of them from people who search all around for me as I pay a 10% finders fee on anyone that someone puts me on track to and I buy it. They are one of my bread and butter items so it does not matter what the cost is I have to keep buying them. I sell them at a 10% markup plus shipping which usually runs about 35.00 as they are heavy suckers. One last item is the original carry tray. There are more versions of the carry tray than there are bombsights. The original carry tray was all wood and I have examples of at least 5 differant variations of the carry tray but I will always pay more if it has the carry tray. Warbirds does sell the first generation reproductions but they painted them black which they originally were natural. Good luck in your hunt for one as they are a real peice of history and are going to do nothing but go up in the future.

Dave

[gwb123]

Now that is an authoritative answer! Thank you for chiming in!.

[vostoktrading]

Very interesting thread. Thanks for brining it back up.

I remember reading that the original cost per unit was high. Piper l4, do you know what it cost Uncle Sam to buy one back in WW2?

Also for the patch collector people, look at post 4 by Dave, I clicked on that link, Is it my imagination or is Lt Hanes in that B26 wearing a reverse color AAF patch?

Jon.

[General Apathy]

Also for the patch collector people, look at post 4 by Dave, I clicked on that link, Is it my imagination or is Lt Hanes in that B26 wearing a reverse color AAF patch?

Jon.

 

Hi Jon, I think that the patch looks like one of those light ' orange ' colored backgrounds, had seveal loose ones, and once one on a set of flight coveralls.

 

fascinating subject of the Norden site and that link Dave added in post #4 is fantastic information.

 

ken

[vostoktrading]

Yes Ken, I think it may be one of those.

Somewhere (probably on this forum) I read they were seen in the Med. That would match the caption as I believe the 9th was down there for a long time before going to Britain.

Here's a felt example I have.

Jon.

[vostoktrading]

I answered my other question. This is what I googled:

 

"By the end of the war, Norden and its subcontractors had produced 72,000 M-9 bombsights for the Army Air Force alone, costing $8,800 each."

 

This is from wikipedia so I don't know how accurate it is. Anyway if true, compared to what our government payed, $2,000 is a bargain!

 

Jon.

[piperl4]

Sorry to have missed all the fun but am now a 100% disabled vet with Lou Gehrig's. I have just got back to playing with the Nordens. I have grabbed the last 3 on eBay for an average of 1500.00 so that is about the going rate for a pretty much perfect sight. The statement about the prices for the Army vs Navy still goes as the Navy sights are just not bringing the price of the Army Air Forces sights. You can trace the cost of buying and selling using piperflitfire as I pretty much buy anyone that is bought or sold as I still think they are a great investment for the future. I just had a great customer fly his Mooney up from FL to DE to purchase a perfect functional sight. We hooked up his power supply to the stabilizer and it ran like a top. He post it on you tube. [email protected] is a good way to get me for questions buying or selling. I have acquired a good number of perfect sights that are complete with wood crate serial numbered box. They also are fully overhauled. Hope you all have as much fun with them as I do.

Dave

[[email protected]]

Well, I am the "great customer" who flew my Mooney from Florida up to Delaware to see PiperL4, and I got a perfect sighthead! (Thank you, Mr. Henderson.) I think it is important when embarking on such a purchase to decide exactly what you are looking for before deciding where to look or how much to pay. The asking prices are all over the place and inconsistent. I think there are three possible categories of sightheads that someone may be interested in buying:

1) Something that looks externally like a Norden bombsight, but may have been scavenged for parts,

2) A historically accurate bombsight with all of its parts, perhaps a data book,

3) A functioning bombsight.

Different sellers and buyers will place a premium on such things as cosmetic appearance, bombsight history, the X-1 reflex head, and so forth. From what I can tell, the vast majority of people simply want to buy something to put on a shelf and point to and say, "There's a Norden Bombsight." Almost no one wants one that is fully functional, and so few sellers will even bother to test them themselves, and not make any guarantees about working. In my case, I was determined to find a working sighthead and it was worth it to me to travel and see it. I was fortunate that it is also cosmetically perfect.

If you are not interested in function, then enough good quality pictures should suffice and you can usually tell if it is going to look great. Being "still in the box" has not been important to me, because I have seen some beautiful sightheads that were on a stand. One of the obvious things that gets scavenged is the gyro leveling bubbles, so it is nice if they are still there.

If you want a functioning sighthead, that is an entirely different matter. I would advise a thorough study of the sight function through any of a number of maintenance and instructional manuals so that you understand how each component works. Then, personally, I would travel to see it. Being "still in the box" or "never opened" does not mean it will work, and although it may be something simple to fix, you are still taking a chance on it. I have examined a few sightheads that were supposed to be virginal but did not work. A sight that has been "opened" may be in great working condition if it has been serviced. On the other hand, if it has been opened, somebody else may have fooled around with it and really messed things up. I think the best approach is to acquire a 30V, 10A power supply for about a $100 and travel to see it and hook it up.

I could provide a buyer's checklist if anyone is interested on purchasing a working sighthead. For a complete display system, you need a stabilizer, and getting one of those running is another issue.

One of the best things about putting together a working system is how helpful everyone was. I got a perfectly functioning and beautiful sighthead from PiperL4 in the previous post. I got beautifully restored stabilizer from Warbird Parts in Florida, although I had to wire it up internally. One of the most thorough web pages is Taigh Ramey's website on www.TwinBeech.com. Some of the best videos are from Timothypaul1964 on YouTube.

To take a look at my video and tutorial, please see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfY5ueWqgBk

[pmanton]

Wow that's neat.

Are you going to put it in your Mooney to win the flower bombing contests. The field approval might be tough.

Paul

Salome, AZ

[[email protected]]

I have updated the video here:

[hbtcoveralls]

The new video is brilliant thanks for the explanation. I've been able to fly in a B-25 and look down through the bombsight and it is an eerie feeling seeing houses go by through the cross hairs.

Tom Bowers