teufelhunde.ret Posted August 22, 2011 Share #376 Posted August 22, 2011 John, can you post picture of the reverse for us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigJohn#3RD Posted August 22, 2011 Share #377 Posted August 22, 2011 Teufelhunde, Per your request. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teufelhunde.ret Posted August 22, 2011 Share #378 Posted August 22, 2011 John, I think you will find most collectors will refer to this set as a re-union, fake and or reproduction disc. W/O another re-hash of ref sec threads, here are two threads to review, both an excellent dialouge about these samples. These simply do not fall into the pattern of issue type or Army/Navy type: http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ind...ost&p=41144 http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ind...?showtopic=6518 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigJohn#3RD Posted August 23, 2011 Share #379 Posted August 23, 2011 Tuefelhunde, Thanks for the info; I guess :pinch: no really :thumbsup: all one can do is to keep on learning. Regards, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmar Posted August 25, 2011 Share #380 Posted August 25, 2011 John, I think you will find most collectors will refer to this set as a re-union, fake and or reproduction disc. W/O another re-hash of ref sec threads, here are two threads to review, both an excellent dialouge about these samples. These simply do not fall into the pattern of issue type or Army/Navy type: http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ind...ost&p=41144 http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ind...?showtopic=6518 Hi teufelhunde, Thank you for the info on these discs, I've always wondered about them. One item I've been confused about for some time is in one of Scipio's books he mentions an Army/Navy Store variation where the eagle's head faces in the wrong direction (like the discs in this thread). The reference is a bit vague but it seemed to imply they were done quite a while ago. Are these one in the same? Thank you! Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williamsmilitaryrelics Posted September 7, 2011 Share #381 Posted September 7, 2011 Guys, here is some pictures of the USMC Officer Chinese made EGA. The Chinese character are hard to see, left side. Will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williamsmilitaryrelics Posted September 7, 2011 Share #382 Posted September 7, 2011 well...not bad...(the close up)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williamsmilitaryrelics Posted September 7, 2011 Share #383 Posted September 7, 2011 See the Chinese characters.. HA HA..awesome camera! love it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williamsmilitaryrelics Posted September 7, 2011 Share #384 Posted September 7, 2011 more pics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usmcaviator Posted September 7, 2011 Share #385 Posted September 7, 2011 William, The EGA is a crude cast copy from what most refer to as an officer P1914. I am not saying that it is not old, just that it is copied from a known WW1 era emblem. It appears that the chinese symbols are scratched in. Another forum member has some original china made officer collars with "chop" marks. I dont think his are as crude. I have seen much better constructed Chinese made insignia. Can you comment on how the chain is attached? Thanks, Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williamsmilitaryrelics Posted September 7, 2011 Share #386 Posted September 7, 2011 Mike, Yep, That's what I thought, A period theater made cast copy made from an original, the easiest way to reproduce something quickly while overseas. The metal is non- magnetic and the rope is wrap around and welded at the end on the back tip of the anchor. The Chinese character could be the name of the guy who made it...like Chong kai or Ping pong bing or something... lol, by the crude workmanship, it most likely have been made by a small steel workshop then a pro jeweler, still a neat piece. Is the original pattern from Gemsco?, I couldn't find anything to match from my "poor" EGA"s ref bookshelf... the closest I found was a pattern made by Jr Gaunt. Thanks Will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigJohn#3RD Posted September 8, 2011 Share #387 Posted September 8, 2011 Hi teufelhunde, I just acquired a copy of U.S. Marine Uniforms 1912-1940 by Jim Moran and noticed that he address the reverse head eagle but nothing said one way or the other about the style. They seem to look like the Army/Navy Style and the details are excellent why would someone go thru the trouble of making them like this; could it not just been a mistake made by the original makers and accepted by the corp unbeknown to the folks at the time. I guess I am disputing the the notion that they are reunion, fake etc. because in my time in the service I have seen mistakes in detail in items contracted for and accepted with the mistake. Thanks in advance...anyone else who know a lot about EGA's is free to tell me I am OTF (Out There Flapping). Regards, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teufelhunde.ret Posted September 9, 2011 Share #388 Posted September 9, 2011 I do understand the confusion, since the author(s) of the book are not present, its appropriate to let the reader draw their own conclusions. The book represents their opinions and conclusions, I'll leave it at that and not comment on their book. I'm of the camp which in large part believes there is only two wartime varieties 1) the issue type and 2) the Army-Navy (two varieties - perhaps better said dies). These being replaced with EGA's in Feb 1920. So IMHO anything being made by unknown parties at an unknown time should rightfully be consider the later category, as I mentioned previously, or in the two threads I pointed you to. Here are two pic's of the ones you have posted, most recognize as simple being phonies. Ironically this thread was revived yesterday, I had not been able to find it to date. I think it will give you a better picture of the controversial nature behind WW1 disc's in general. Hope this helps... just my 2 cents! (collar disc minefield as I like to call it) http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ind...=28159&st=0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teufelhunde.ret Posted September 9, 2011 Share #389 Posted September 9, 2011 Will, I've stared at this pic's until I started going cross-eyed. :pinch: Is this the Chinese characters you refer to? Can you post a better / closer for identification please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teufelhunde.ret Posted September 9, 2011 Share #390 Posted September 9, 2011 ... and while looking thru my pic's for another topic found these tinkered with gems... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usmcaviator Posted September 10, 2011 Share #391 Posted September 10, 2011 Mike, Yep, That's what I thought, A period theater made cast copy made from an original, the easiest way to reproduce something quickly while overseas. William, I am not so thoroughly convinced that this was "period theater made". The marks are really no indication of being original thus far. They are scratched in, which is not common on any EGA, and the marks are very difficult to see/makeout with the photos posted. Most China made stuff I have seen looks to be of much better quality. This is supposed to be a Marine officer piece. It would be very disconcerting for me to think an officer of the China Legation would wear or even want a piece this crude. Marines of Peking were some of the tightest, most detailed oriented Marines of the era. This stemmed from the fact that they didnt have much to do. Their uniforms and gear wear flawless and their parades were over the top. S/F, Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobgee Posted September 10, 2011 Share #392 Posted September 10, 2011 William,I am not so thoroughly convinced that this was "period theater made". The marks are really no indication of being original thus far. They are scratched in, which is not common on any EGA, and the marks are very difficult to see/makeout with the photos posted. Most China made stuff I have seen looks to be of much better quality. This is supposed to be a Marine officer piece. It would be very disconcerting for me to think an officer of the China Legation would wear or even want a piece this crude. Marines of Peking were some of the tightest, most detailed oriented Marines of the era. This stemmed from the fact that they didnt have much to do. Their uniforms and gear wear flawless and their parades were over the top. S/F, Mike ......what he said! :thumbsup: Semper Fi......Bobgee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brig Posted September 10, 2011 Share #393 Posted September 10, 2011 these also came in the group. The emblem on the left I believe is 100% crap. I think the bullion patch is Pakistani, and the Eagle/globe is a copy made from an M37 H&H officer emblem with the continents removed. The one on the right has a much high quality bullion patch...and an original officer collar dress emblem that has been destroyed. Eagle rearmarked 'Silver', the anchor has been clipped at the edges of the Globe and the emblem sewn to the patch. Origins? The Capt bar...for the early shoulder boards, but I don't know about that black layer in the middle...not sure if synthetic or what? White threads do not glow. Original? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brig Posted September 10, 2011 Share #394 Posted September 10, 2011 rears Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brig Posted September 10, 2011 Share #395 Posted September 10, 2011 questionable layers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brig Posted September 10, 2011 Share #396 Posted September 10, 2011 under the eagle on the right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brig Posted September 10, 2011 Share #397 Posted September 10, 2011 rear of eagle and sew job Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usmcaviator Posted September 10, 2011 Share #398 Posted September 10, 2011 Brig, The one on the right is a US Navy bullion anchor insignia that has a "real" WW1 era officer collar device that has the anchor removed. This is in an attempt to make it look like an 1868 Officer's two-piece hat device. Nice attempt at an otherwise "unobtainable" insignia. S/F, Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brig Posted September 10, 2011 Share #399 Posted September 10, 2011 thanks...thought the bullion was well done...is it Midshipman? the eagle breaks my heart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teufelhunde.ret Posted September 11, 2011 Share #400 Posted September 11, 2011 Shame to see the EGA's sacrificed for this... nonetheless an interesting conversation piece "how not to...." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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