English made Glider wings.

[SLEV2252]

Hi guys,i thought i would list some pics of English made Glider wings.There has been some controversy over these wings in the past as to thier originality.I had a set that were stamped LVER pictured,which is obviously the end of Silver,and i was not sure about them.Last week i bought an identacle pair with a British assay mark and i have listed them together for comparison.The assay marks on the bottom pair are an Anchor ,a Lion and the letter u.I have found that these stamps are for the Birminham assay office and the letter u denotes the year 1944.Both sets of wings are exactly the same size and i think probably made from the same die as if you look carefully at the backs you can see 3 or 4 identacle flaws in the same place, the only difference is the stamps and the slightly different patinas.

[rustywings]

I've seen a few "Firmin & Son's" produced silver Pilot wings with smaller versions of the same three jeweler's marks. I wonder if Firmin produced your wings as well?

[SLEV2252]

Hi,i guess it's possible but i've only recently started to collect these wings and i havn't seen any other English made wings with assay office marks,so hopefully other members will add some to the post.

Steve.

[Sabrejet]

Wartime British-made USAAF wings tended to be unmarked "white metal", unlike the STERLING marked wings typically produced in the United States. I've got several in my own collection which only bear maker marks. I'm not suggesting that precious metal examples were not produced...but perhaps they may be best described as "untypical"?

[John Cooper]

Have you researched the sterling marks?The lion looks to equal .925 and the U appears to date it but I am not expert so you will need to research. Good Luck!

 

 

http://www.925-1000.com/index.html

 

http://www.cameo-auctioneers.co.uk/london_silver.html

 

http://www.silvercollection.it/englishsilvermarksXA.html

[rustywings]

Steve,

 

I have an unmarked Glider Pilot badge which appears to be a silver wash over brass example that may have come from the same die as your two silver examples.

 

Russ

[rustywings]

Reverse of the unmarked Glider Pilot.

[rustywings]

Like your Glider Pilot wing with jeweler's marks, I believe this Firmin made Pilot wing, with the same silver markings on the reverse, may be related. As Sabrejet mentioned, silver marked British-made wings were rarely produced and are very tough to find.

[rustywings]

The reverse with slightly smaller variations of the same jeweler's marks depicted on Steve's Glider Pilot badge.

I believe the "F&S" marking on the left stands for "Firmin & Son".

[rustywings]

Another view.

[rustywings]

Closer image of the three jeweler's marks.

[Paul S]

F&S would indeed be the maker; the anchor is, I think for Birmingham; the middle mark would be the purity standard certification; and the right mark would be the year. You need a book of marks to decipher these things. The "U" mark must also be matched as to the font form as the English recycled the alphabet and changed the font each time they restarted the sequence. It's been a government controlled program dating more or less unchanged for maybe, 400-years plus or minus, initially designed to ensure the King got his tax money.

[MikeK]

As per Tardy, the Anchor + Lion Passant marks indicate Silver, the U is for 1944 and the F&S would be the maker mark for Firmin & Sons. They still exist today.

 

Russ, you must have an amazing collection - you continue to turn out absolute gems of wings and badges!

 

Regards

Mike

[John Cooper]

All thanks for the great replies! This thread serves and an education for your fellow collectors.

 

Cheers

John

[rustywings]

Thank you Paul and Mike for the information on the jeweler's marks. There's a similar J.R. Gaunt hallmarked pilot wing illustrated on page 97 of "More Silver Wings, Pinks & Greens", by Jon Maguire, which shows the same jeweler's markings to the right of the shield, plus five additional markings to the left of the shield under the word 'STERLING.' Any ideas on what these markings may represent?

[rustywings]

I may have answered my own question when I enlarged the image. It appears the five markings are "J-R-G-&-S"...indicative of "J.R. Gaunt & Sons."

[MikeK]

Hi Russ,

 

You've already figured out the maker mark on the SWP&G example. What I neglected to write in the post above (but it had already been mentioned) is that the Anchor + Lion Passant marks indicate BIRMINGHAM Silver. What's interesting on that Gaunt example is the somewhat redundant STERLING stamp (I'd have to check whether Anchor+Lion marking indicate a minimum grade of silver) and the LONDON maker involved (assuming the middle marking on the SWP&G example is another lion). I was home on the weekend but I'm away again for a few weeks so I won't be able to check my silver references to clarify.

 

Regards

Mike

[rustywings]

Mike, thank you for the additional information. You've got me running around the house looking at British markings on my wife's old silver spoon collection! I appreciate the shared knowledge from you and the other insightful members of this Forum.

 

Russ

[Paul S]

Most of the English silversmiths who had a number of letters or partners would combine all the letters into one stamp. However, I'm thinking that since Gaunt used the different stamps, it might be an indication that the production run of these particular wings was relatively small, thus not worth the effort to make up the single stamp. The single letter stamps could have been something they already had in the tool crib.

 

As for the "sterling" stamp being redundant, perhaps Gaunt had a USA outlet during WWII where the Guild marks would have been unfathomable to US purchasers; could also have been seen as complying with US legal marking requirements, don't know.

 

Went to a local estate auction some years ago and purchased a small Irish silver cup for $65....my upper limit for the piece. Thankfully, no one else in the room knew how to read the 3 marks stamped on the bottom, except for the Irish lyre, which everyone recognized. I knew it was old from the hand tooling marks used in forming it. After buying a couple of books of English marks I found the maker's mark for James Walker...the date letter was more difficult to see and identify, but worked out to be for 1701 ! It was considerably more valuable than $65.

 

PS

[Kropotkin]

I have a question regarding this set of English-made (Gaunt?) glider pilot wings I'm hoping an expert on here can answer. I've little doubt these are period die-struck brass wings (I hope! Tell me if they're not!), but is the silver wash period?

[Kropotkin]

Here's a higher definition image of the front, which might help:

[rustywings]

I have a question regarding this set of English-made (Gaunt?) glider pilot wings I'm hoping an expert on here can answer. I've little doubt these are period die-struck brass wings (I hope! Tell me if they're not!), but is the silver wash period?

 

I'm no expert... but as a fellow hobbyist, I think your example is WWII period through and through. It appears to have not seen a lot of wear, so there's little evidence of exposed brass on the high points. It sure looks like an authentic and concern-free Glider Pilot badge to me.

 

[Kropotkin]

Many thanks Rustywings. I think the lack of wear - there's a couple of flaked-off areas and a little verdigris here and there, but as you say hardly any exposed brass from wear - had me concerned that a later wash had been applied. cheers!

[bschwartz]

If you look at the RAF 1942 badges on my site you'll see very similar JR Gaunt & Sons marks.

[Kropotkin]

Hi all,

 

I'm guessing these wings are phoney. Would I be correct in my assumption?