Army AG44 Spec 5 uniform, no service stripes.

[iamck94]

I have an Army Green Uniform in AG shade 44 date 1962 that belonged to a Specialist 5 in the 3rd Infantry Division. However there are no diagonal service stripes or any indication that there were ever any on the uniform to begin with. So I have come up with several possible reasons why there are no stripes:

 

1) They were removed and someone went through the effort to remove the marks (I doubt it based on the condition the uniform was in).

2) The soldier was in less than three years and never earned one stripe.

3) Then (like now) the solider enlisted at an advanced rank (if that was available at the time)

 

Unless I'm missing something it's most likely #2 or 3. I don't know how long it took to get to Spec 5/E-5, either.

[oldfireguy]

4. He never put one on because Class A's were seldom worn.

5. He, like me, got out after three years and gave his uniform to the Goodwill.

 

I made E-5 in 2 years.

 

I'm sure there are more reasons.

[seanmc1114]

Not sure about 1962, but later during Vietnam many guys made E-5, either Specialist or Sergeant, during a two year enlistment. That was a very common rank for a combat medic.

[elbertson]

4. He never put one on because Class A's were seldom worn.

5. He, like me, got out after three years and gave his uniform to the Goodwill.

 

I made E-5 in 2 years.

 

I'm sure there are more reasons.

I believe reason 4, combined with general indifference, may be close to the norm for non-career soldiers...or at least so 30-40 years ago.

[seanmc1114]

I believe reason 4, combined with general indifference, may be close to the norm for non-career soldiers...or at least so 30-40 years ago.

I agree that's possible, but why the assumption that an E-5 had three years of service? It was not all that uncommon to make that rank sooner. Around the same time a famous draftee named Elvis Presley made E-5 Sergeant during a two year enlistment.

[iamck94]

I had no idea how long it took to make E-5 at that time. I understand that now it isn't that difficult to make it in less than three years, but I didn't know about the early 60's.

[elbertson]

I agree that's possible, but why the assumption that an E-5 had three years of service? It was not all that uncommon to make that rank sooner. Around the same time a famous draftee named Elvis Presley made E-5 Sergeant during a two year enlistment.

Depends on a lot of variables...not everyone was Elvis. You can't really date his time in service from the jacket date...or know the nature of his service. In the '70s, E-5 was often dangled as bait at the end of a 3 year enlistment to inspire re-enlistment.

[seanmc1114]

Depends on a lot of variables...not everyone was Elvis. You can't really date his time in service from the jacket date...or know the nature of his service. In the '70s, E-5 was often dangled as bait at the end of a 3 year enlistment to inspire re-enlistment.

I wasn't suggesting everyone was Elvis. Just pointing out that in that time frame it was not only not rare but actually very common to achieve the rank of E-5 in less than three years. As you point out, the date of the jacket doesn't necessarily narrow down the dates of service of the owner. By the time the Vietnam War was going full blast it was extremely common to see 20-22 years old E-5's and in some cases E-6's. I don't know when the policy started, but at least by 1968 when a soldier went to Vietnam he was automatically promoted to E-3 which would have been a PFC. Many soldiers received at least one promotion while in-country. To prevent a glut of corporals, which were NCO's, that usually meant promotion to Specialist 4. It was not uncommon for the same soldier to recieve a second promotion in-country, especially if he extended his tour. Sometimes that would be to Specialist 5 and sometimes to Sergeant.

 

I think by the mid-60's, most medics were made Specialist 4 upon completion of their training and their next promotion would make them a Specialist 5. I have seen many references to 20 and 21 years old Specialist 5 medics with less than two years of service. My father had a company medic in the 82nd Airborne in Vietnam who had volunteered for the Army and jump school and extended his tour in Vietnam for six months after his one year tour was up. He was killed in action three months into his extension and a few days shy of his 20th birthday.

 

In my father's case in 1967, after he finished AIT, he was assigned to the newly created NCO Candidate Course at Fort Benning. This was set up to be similar to OCS but to quickly train new soldiers to serve as squad leaders and platoon sergeants since Vietnam was putting a strain on the Army's older NCO corps. When the students began the course, regardless of their existing rank, whether it was Private or Private First Class or even Specialist 4, they were all promoted to Corporal. All graduates of the course were promoted to E-5 Sergeant. However, the cadre had the option of promoting honor graduates of the class or graduates who immediately attended the Ranger course to Staff Sergeant. This was a rank that in peacetime may normally take ten or more years to achieve. However, under that scenario, you had some E-6's with less than one full year in the Army. Again, in my father's case, he was an honor graduate but his NCO instructors told him nobody should be an E-6 that soon and refused to endorse the promotion to Staff Sergeant. One guy from his company from another platoon did make Staff Sergeant upon graduation. So when my father arrived in Vietnam 11 months after enlisting and at age 21, he was an E-5 Sergeant. Because of shortages in his unit, within a month he was a platoon sergeant which is a position meant to be filled by an E-7 or at least an E-6 with ten to fifteen years of experience in the peacetime Army. At times when they didn't have a Lieutenant, he was also the acting platoon leader. Later during his tour, his unit got a new graduate of the NCO course who had been promoted to E-6 Staff Sergeant upon graduation. He was also 21 and had less time in the Army or in-country than my father. But because he outranked my father, he was made platoon sergeant and my father was made a squad leader.

 

I'm not sure how your guy might have fit into this scenario since he was in the 3rd Infantry Division. From 1958 through 1996, the 3rd was stationed in Germany. Because of manpower shortages in the Army during Vietnam, many ranks and positions that would usually be filled by soldiers with many years in-service were instead filled by soldiers on their first three year enlistment or even draftees during their two year term. I'm sure circumstances on the Cold War front lines in Europe and Korea were pretty much the same as in Vietnam.

[atb]

Maybe typical or maybe not typical, but I enlisted in Jan 1970, made E2 in the requisite automatic 6 months, E3 in Jul 1970 just before going overseas, E4 in Nov or Dec 1970 and E5 in Oct or Nov 1971 just before returning to the States-- less than 24 months. This seemed to be the normal progression at the time.

[seanmc1114]

Maybe typical or maybe not typical, but I enlisted in Jan 1970, made E2 in the requisite automatic 6 months, E3 in Jul 1970 just before going overseas, E4 in Nov or Dec 1970 and E5 in Oct or Nov 1971 just before returning to the States-- less than 24 months. This seemed to be the normal progression at the time.

As an E-4 were you a Corporal or a Specialist 4 and as an E-5 were you a Sergeant or Specialist 5?

[VolunteerArmoury]

I do not know about Time In Grade/Time In Service back then but I know about today. One can still make rank fairly fast. I enlisted in Jan 1997 as an E-3 & made E-5 in January of 99 just two months shy of my first three years. My last tour in Iraq and at the WTB I'm currently assigned I've met several Regular Army folks who are young and E-5s. I met an E-6 who was 23 and also a Platoon Sergeant in one of our Convoy Escort Teams. I've picked up an E-6 Specialist that has no service stripes nor indication so I'd like to know more about the TIG/TIS regarding the Specialist in the '60s.

[theschneid88]

My dad had six years in. 1963-69. He told me flat out that he "never added anything more to his uniform than he had to" I have his jacket and there are no overseas bars or service stripes, though we would have been entitled to both. He liked the Army but never cared much for flash or extras on his uniform or gear. Could be a million reasons why your coat lacks the service stripes.

[patches]

I have an Army Green Uniform in AG shade 44 date 1962 that belonged to a Specialist 5 in the 3rd Infantry Division. However there are no diagonal service stripes or any indication that there were ever any on the uniform to begin with. So I have come up with several possible reasons why there are no stripes:

 

1) They were removed and someone went through the effort to remove the marks (I doubt it based on the condition the uniform was in).

2) The soldier was in less than three years and never earned one stripe.

3) Then (like now) the solider enlisted at an advanced rank (if that was available at the time)

 

Unless I'm missing something it's most likely #2 or 3. I don't know how long it took to get to Spec 5/E-5, either.

 

There's a sure fire way to see if any patches, service stripes included where sewn on these type of Army Green jackets, you must check the liner beneath where the patch would have been sewn. As I stated in a earlier topic wool tunic's tend not to show visable evidence of insignia being sewn or pined to them, if at all the evidence can be faint and will completly disappear after but one dry cleaning. The real way to tell especialy on the AG coats is by the rayon liners, here you will see thread markings made by the threads that was used as bobbin thread, it is unmistakable.