cwnorma Posted November 8, 2007 Share #1 Posted November 8, 2007 Has anyone ever seen this patch before? Mohawk Arms has one in their current auction, and they call it "16 Aero" patch. Any ideas? Thanks in advance. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cthomas Posted November 8, 2007 Share #2 Posted November 8, 2007 What the fudge!? Never seen the likes of it...Hope someone else can confirm the 16 Aero ID... -Chuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KurtA Posted November 8, 2007 Share #3 Posted November 8, 2007 Whatever it may be, I seriously doubt it's WW1 vintage. Kurt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aef1917 Posted November 8, 2007 Share #4 Posted November 8, 2007 Maybe that's a 76 and not a 16. One of the nicknames of the 76th Division was the Liberty Bell Division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwnorma Posted November 8, 2007 Author Share #5 Posted November 8, 2007 Whatever it may be, I seriously doubt it's WW1 vintage. Kurt Kurt, I read ya buddy, but here's the thing; last year, I bought a WW1 tunic with an identical patch. I bought it at a gun show in Austin, and didn't pay a lot for it. Because the jacket I have had unit information in it tying it to Camp Kearny, I speculated that this patch might have been for the 16th Division (or possibly one of it's brigades). I showed the uniform and patch on another board, and most people there speculated that it was WW1 era, but that it was probably for an unknown unit that stayed stateside (the 16th Division would qualify). When I bought the uniform, it had US and Arty/HQ collar disks, this SSI, discharge chevron, and a single silver (stateside) overseas chevron. Before this Mohawk auction, I had never seen another of these patches before, and was inclined to write it off as a mystery. Now this one shows up, and they seem to have a solid ID on it. I wonder where they are getting their info from? I am stumped. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwnorma Posted November 9, 2007 Author Share #6 Posted November 9, 2007 Any ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steverino Posted November 9, 2007 Share #7 Posted November 9, 2007 Any ideas? The patch is indeed the 16th Division from Camp Kearny, CA. I have seen two others, with no doubt as to their authenticity, and both were identical to the one pictured here. For my money, this patch is as right as rain. If you don't like it, I'll be more than pleased to take it off your hands. Steve Johnson Patch Johnson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwnorma Posted November 10, 2007 Author Share #8 Posted November 10, 2007 The patch is indeed the 16th Division from Camp Kearny, CA. I have seen two others, with no doubt as to their authenticity, and both were identical to the one pictured here. For my money, this patch is as right as rain. If you don't like it, I'll be more than pleased to take it off your hands. Steve Johnson Patch Johnson Steve, Thanks for the info! Any idea as to the symbolism? Is that supposed to be a "mission bell"? Best wishes Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steverino Posted November 10, 2007 Share #9 Posted November 10, 2007 Steve, Thanks for the info! Any idea as to the symbolism? Is that supposed to be a "mission bell"? Best wishes Chris Chris, I would believe that you are correct about that being a "mission bell" (see the original version of the XIX Corps patch - also a CA unit). Believe it or not, I did know the symbolism of the bell on this patch, but at the moment I'm having a senior moment and I can't remember. My brother is on the road at the moment and I'm sure he will remember. I will ask him at the first opportunity and report back. It is one rare patch for sure! Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tredhed2 Posted November 10, 2007 Share #10 Posted November 10, 2007 It is in fact a mission bell. For you non-Californians, when the Spanish first came to to California in the 1700s, they built - sorry, enslaved and forced the Native Americans to build, churches (missions) along the CA coast. They extended from San Diego (Camp Kearny was near San Diego proper) all the way up to San Freako. There were 19 missions, and were all forcibly built along one long road, named El Camino Real (The King's Way). Today, the route is best known as Hwy 101, in parts. In Los Angeles County, there are bells, done in mission style, hung from poles, along the route. I know, I know - zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwnorma Posted November 10, 2007 Author Share #11 Posted November 10, 2007 All, Here are some photos of the uniform I bought in Austin: Mods, Could one of you be so kind as to change the name of this thread to "16 Division Patch" or something similar? It would probably be useful for reference. Thanks! Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KurtA Posted November 10, 2007 Share #12 Posted November 10, 2007 Kurt, I read ya buddy, but here's the thing; last year, I bought a WW1 tunic with an identical patch. I bought it at a gun show in Austin, and didn't pay a lot for it. Because the jacket I have had unit information in it tying it to Camp Kearny, I speculated that this patch might have been for the 16th Division (or possibly one of it's brigades). I showed the uniform and patch on another board, and most people there speculated that it was WW1 era, but that it was probably for an unknown unit that stayed stateside (the 16th Division would qualify). When I bought the uniform, it had US and Arty/HQ collar disks, this SSI, discharge chevron, and a single silver (stateside) overseas chevron. Before this Mohawk auction, I had never seen another of these patches before, and was inclined to write it off as a mystery. Now this one shows up, and they seem to have a solid ID on it. I wonder where they are getting their info from? I am stumped. Chris Chris I guess it was the lighting on the first patch you posted, but it sure does look brand new. However, it does have the EXACT same stitching as the one on your uniform (which I like). Just goes to show "mint condition" doesn't always mean fake. WW1 patches are just so tough to authenticate. Kurt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QED4 Posted November 10, 2007 Share #13 Posted November 10, 2007 The problem with the Mission Bell theory is that they both appear to have a crack on them like the Liberty Bell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwnorma Posted November 11, 2007 Author Share #14 Posted November 11, 2007 ChrisI guess it was the lighting on the first patch you posted, but it sure does look brand new. However, it does have the EXACT same stitching as the one on your uniform (which I like). Just goes to show "mint condition" doesn't always mean fake. WW1 patches are just so tough to authenticate. Kurt Kurt, The picture in the first post was from the Mohawk Arms Auction running on ebay. I agree, it is a little "washed out" and over saturated. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwnorma Posted November 11, 2007 Author Share #15 Posted November 11, 2007 The problem with the Mission Bell theory is that they both appear to have a crack on them like the Liberty Bell. QED4, I noted the Crack too. Is there a famous mission bell that has a crack??? I look forward to Patch Johnson elucidating us on the symbology of this patch. Cheers! Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwnorma Posted November 14, 2007 Author Share #16 Posted November 14, 2007 Chris, I would believe that you are correct about that being a "mission bell" (see the original version of the XIX Corps patch - also a CA unit). Believe it or not, I did know the symbolism of the bell on this patch, but at the moment I'm having a senior moment and I can't remember. My brother is on the road at the moment and I'm sure he will remember. I will ask him at the first opportunity and report back. It is one rare patch for sure! Steve Steve, What is this patch? I know that the WW1 strip cards show this as 16th Division. Do you have any data on it? Thanks! Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steverino Posted November 14, 2007 Share #17 Posted November 14, 2007 Steve, What is this patch? I know that the WW1 strip cards show this as 16th Division. Do you have any data on it? Thanks! Chris Chris, There is one part of this patch that is missing and that is a small numeral 5 in white beneath the crossbar of the 'A'. It is true that the old trading cards ID'd this as the 16th Div. However, I have yet to find anything to confirm that ID. The more probable ID is for the 5th Air Park, but this may be one of those perpetual mystery patches. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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