USMC Gold Pistol Competition

[jmar]

Hello everyone!

 

I'm in the process of packing things up for a planned moved (hopefully) within the next few months. As I went through some of my shooting awards I came across this lovely little piece I nabbed back in 2008. It was listed on a military auction site where their total lack of knowledge can be both a curse and a blessing, in this case it was the latter! Since it was unmarked as to gold content it was listed as a named example only. As soon as it arrived, I held the bag and felt the weight I knew the collecting gods were smiling on me that day.

 

Snagged for a fraction of it's melt value alone (a horrifying thought , but it DOES happen, especially these days with gold going off the charts), I am proud to be the caretaker of this beautiful medal. I'm not sure of it's gold content, I know at least 14k, but that is not nearly as important as it's history.

 

I've not fully research the recipient, but stumbled upon two listings for this U.S. Marine Marksman in Blakeney's book. Listed on page 489 and 491 is George H. Hurt (829929), for Distinguished Marksman and Distinguished Pistol Shot.

 

If anyone has any info on this honored vet, the engraving style or strike of the medal, I'd love to hear back.

 

Best wishes to all!

 

Joe

 

[COOKIEMAN]

I would say this medal is at least 14K. The way it is dinged and scratched indicates the metal is pretty soft.

 

Gold content can now be tested in non-destructive (no more acid testing) ways. I would say take it to one of the reputable gold buyers in your area and ask for an analysis and approximate value.

 

George H. Hurt became a Distinguished Marksman in 1950, going Distinguished Pistol Shot in 1952. Corporal Hirt won the Marine Corps Pistol match in 1950, firing a score of 553. He won your medal at this match, it being his second leg towards DPS.

 

Source of the above information is "The History of Marine Corps Competitive Marksmanship", by Major Robert E. Barde, published in 1961 by the Marksmanship Branch, G-3 division, Hq USMC.

[jmar]

I would say this medal is at least 14K. The way it is dinged and scratched indicates the metal is pretty soft.

 

Gold content can now be tested in non-destructive (no more acid testing) ways. I would say take it to one of the reputable gold buyers in your area and ask for an analysis and approximate value.

 

George H. Hurt became a Distinguished Marksman in 1950, going Distinguished Pistol Shot in 1952. Corporal Hirt won the Marine Corps Pistol match in 1950, firing a score of 553. He won your medal at this match, it being his second leg towards DPS.

 

Source of the above information is "The History of Marine Corps Competitive Marksmanship", by Major Robert E. Barde, published in 1961 by the Marksmanship Branch, G-3 division, Hq USMC.

 

Hello Cookieman,

 

Thank you very much for the additional information on Cpl Hurt, I appreciate you taking the time to look it up for me and post it to this thread.

 

Best wishes!

 

Joe

[kfields]

Joe,

That is a very nice medal and award.

 

I'm sure it was a pleasant surprise when you received it!

 

Kim

[jmar]

Joe,

That is a very nice medal and award.

 

I'm sure it was a pleasant surprise when you received it!

 

Kim

 

Hi Kim, and thank you for your nice comments and for stopping by. YES! It was quite the surprise when my hunch was confirmed. As soon as I held it I knew, my heart was really racing to be able to have such a historic piece. I've a good amount of sterling awards both USMC and USN, but never, ever dreamed I'd own a solid gold example. One of those high points you'll never forget.

 

Best wishes,

 

Joe

[cutiger83]

That is one beautiful shooting badge! I don't want to know how much you paid for it but I am curious to know how much these normally run. I really love USMC shooting badges and have never seen one of these. I am sure they are out of my ballpark.

 

Thanks for showing this to us! Congrats....Kat

[teufelhunde.ret]

That is one beautiful shooting badge! I don't want to know how much you paid for it but I am curious to know how much these normally run. I really love USMC shooting badges and have never seen one of these. I am sure they are out of my ballpark.

 

Thanks for showing this to us! Congrats....Kat

 

Kat, that is one tough question, as these gold badges (AKA Division or Leg badges) with their inherent precious metal value override sadly, the collector values. Thus it is far more likely these (vice the silver or bronze) named to the same person are likely to fall into the "rare" category, creating something of an artificial value. Another factor, they don't show-up every day, thus tracking values of USMC competitive shooting medals is very difficult as best. Nonetheless, before the gold run-up, this type of competition badge, named, would bring around $250. If attributed to a distinguished marksman... the badge sold for much more. Same applies to the silver and bronze with them selling at 150-175. However, it will always come down to who the recipient was and their record in competitive shooting - their duration in competitive shooting will override any likely norms of sales prices for USMC competition shooting badges. s/f D.

[Jack's Son]

Kat, that is one tough question, as these gold badges (AKA Division or Leg badges) with their inherent precious metal value override sadly, the collector values. Thus it is far more likely these (vice the silver or bronze) named to the same person are likely to fall into the "rare" category, creating something of an artificial value. Another factor, they don't show-up every day, thus tracking values of USMC competitive shooting medals is very difficult as best. Nonetheless, before the gold run-up, this type of competition badge, named, would bring around $250. If attributed to a distinguished marksman... the badge sold for much more. Same applies to the silver and bronze with them selling at 150-175. However, it will always come down to who the recipient was and their record in competitive shooting - their duration in competitive shooting will override any likely norms of sales prices for USMC competition shooting badges. s/f D.

Hi "D",

What did Winston say............"It is a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma: but perhaps there is a key."

 

:thumbsup:

[cutiger83]

Kat, that is one tough question,

 

D,

 

Thanks so much for your input. I had a feeling the price would be over a couple hundred but wasn't sure how high. I also wasn't sure how high a named one would go. I also understand about it being hard to narrow down the value. I really was just looking for a ball park. I figured it was out of my price range and I was right

 

Thanks again, Kat

[jmar]

D,

 

Thanks so much for your input. I had a feeling the price would be over a couple hundred but wasn't sure how high. I also wasn't sure how high a named one would go. I also understand about it being hard to narrow down the value. I really was just looking for a ball park. I figured it was out of my price range and I was right

 

Thanks again, Kat

 

Hi Kat,

 

The gold value alone is the problem with these awards as far as "cost" goes. With 1 troy oz of 14k (58.33% purity) gold going for $1,039.704 USD as of today, it pushes out most collectors and opens it up to gold brokers (scrap dealers).

 

Most sellers/dealers/auctions wish to get the most $$ out of a piece, so if the collecting market can't support the value of the precious metal content of any piece of militaria it could well head to the scrap dealer. It's a terrible thing to happen for those of us who love history and want to preserve it, but a cold, hard fact of life. This particular USMC Shooting Award must weigh close to an ounce, which poses the problem for a true valuation with today's ever rising gold values. My case was a fluke, an auction house who did not recognize what they had, and a lack of bidders who didn't want to take a chance on the medal and raise the bidding. I was just in the right place at the right time.

 

Thank you for your question and my thanks to teufelhunde who replied with an excellent assessment on this aspect of collecting. JS, always nice to see you stop by!

 

My best to all,

 

Joe

[cutiger83]

Most sellers/dealers/auctions wish to get the most $$ out of a piece, so if the collecting market can't support the value of the precious metal content of any piece of militaria it could well head to the scrap dealer. It's a terrible thing to happen for those of us who love history and want to preserve it, but a cold, hard fact of life.

 

Joe,

 

It is so sad to see such beautiful items being sold for scrap rather than preserved.

 

Thanks again for showing this beautiful piece! Congrats!

 

....Kat

[MWalsh]

Mods - i.e. Teufelhunde.net - please go ahead and delete this post of mine if you think it is not appropriate for me to post it as noted below. I don't want to be "that guy" - the one who shamelessly posts about their things they "happen" to be selling...

 

Just to be clear and up front about my post here about this, I AM selling the badge / medal I am talking about. I found this thread a little while ago while trying (with little success) to reseach the one I have. Lest anyone think my posts are to help sell my badge, they are not, these are very difficult to ever find so I thought I would post pics of mine here.

 

My medal is from 1927, named, dated, clearly hand engraved, and I believe the gold version. Becaause it is the earliest one I had found anything on I figured I would post it here.

 

From what I can tell and have learned these Marine Corps Division Shooting badges ("badge" is I believe correct, versus calling them a "medal") were from various geographic areas the Marine Corps serves in. At one time or another - maybe they have always been the same, I am not sure - the Divisions were West, East, Far East, Pacific, and I think maybe a few others which have come and gone. To work your way up to Distinguished status, one had to earn either a bronze, silver, or gold Division medal first.

 

Obviously others know way more about these badges and this topic than me, so please correct me on this if need be.

 

The original owner of this badge had quite an interesting history, this thing could probably tell some stories could it talk

 

Anyway, enjoy.

 

MW

 

 

 

 

[MWalsh]

 

 

[MWalsh]

 

 

[MWalsh]

 

 

[MWalsh]

 

 

[MWalsh]

I am 99.9% sure mine is a rifle award too, but again, as seldom as these old ones are seen, I figured I would post it.

 

MW

[Brig]

Great badges, can't believe I missed this thread. These divisional badges are often referred to as 'Leg Medals', and the recipients are said to have 'Metaled' in competition.

 

Current regulations require 30 accumulated points to achieve the status of Distinguished, a maximum of 10 or which can be earned per season, or year. (Season is roughly 4 months long, if memory serves. That's how long our guys were tasked out on the team when I worked on PI).

 

These badges are always nice to find, the hardest ones to find are war time, as most competitions were suspended during WWII and such due to the needs of the war itself. Even now, while not suspended over the past 10 years, very few Marines have had a chance to compete, much less for consecutive years required to go distinguished. None of the victor units I was in allowed Marines to attend the intramurals (try-outs) for the team as Grunts were needed overseas. Parris Island allowed us to be on their team, alas all 3 seasons I was there for the stars never aligned for me to actually participate, I did however help coordinate and run the range itself during intramurals twice.

[Brig]

I am 99.9% sure mine is a rifle award too, but again, as seldom as these old ones are seen, I figured I would post it.

 

MW

 

Indeed it is

[Brig]

Kat, that is one tough question, as these gold badges (AKA Division or Leg badges) with their inherent precious metal value override sadly, the collector values. Thus it is far more likely these (vice the silver or bronze) named to the same person are likely to fall into the "rare" category, creating something of an artificial value. Another factor, they don't show-up every day, thus tracking values of USMC competitive shooting medals is very difficult as best. Nonetheless, before the gold run-up, this type of competition badge, named, would bring around $250. If attributed to a distinguished marksman... the badge sold for much more. Same applies to the silver and bronze with them selling at 150-175. However, it will always come down to who the recipient was and their record in competitive shooting - their duration in competitive shooting will override any likely norms of sales prices for USMC competition shooting badges. s/f D.

 

That being said, competitive marksmanship related items have a very small niche in the collectors world. I'm yet to stumble on a collector who focuses either solely or primarily on the field.

 

Of course, there are collectors out there such as ourselves who have an affinity for marksmanship related materials. I'm always on the lookout for old data books and competition awards, and quite unfortunately recently lost out on owning Captain Snow's evening mess jacket that brought over a grand on eBay

[jmpmstr]

A great discussion all…my $.02, I own 1 and it is the one in this thread. When I’m considering a gold award I take into account intrinsic and historical value, scarcity, and the spot price of whatever the gold content is. I don’t have a formula I just go with gut as to how much, if any, I will go over spot. It is an investment in the medal for its collector value as well as a precious metal investment so I proceed with caution. 
 

There are many gold gram calculators out there that give you values of all classes of gold…the one I use gives ms melt value based on the spot for the day. Not accounting for the collector aspect it gives me a good baseline to assess value at its core and work from there