Has anyone ever lent anything to a museum?

1,219 · August 13, 2011

When I go off to college in the future, I was thinking about lending parts of my collection to the USS New Jersey. The reason I am choosing the New Jersey is because the school I want to go to is near it, I live near it, and the museum is almost empty. I was wondering if anyone ever had a bad experience with lending an item to a museum? Example, not getting it returned.

1,219 · August 13, 2011

Oops I just saw the please read before posting. Mods please remove or move. Sorry.

10,001 · August 13, 2011

You will find many words of warning when it comes to museums. There are a couple rules to go by:

1. Do not lend your items to museums. Many won't accept responsibility for the items in question. The USAF museum system will not accept lent items at all. All items have to be signed over to them permanently with no promises made on the disposition of those items.

2. You have to understand that museums have limited room and if artifacts do not support their mission, then there is no place to display them within the context of the exhibits. Most likely, those items will either be traded for items they need or stored away.

I don't want to discourage you, but them is the facts.

-Ski

1,219 · August 13, 2011

Thanks, they had a display of japanese items and I had an officers sword and they did not. They also have almost 50 empty display cases.

6,329 · August 13, 2011

Thievery can also rear its head from what I have read on here. At a smaller museum that does borrow items a fella on here had his dad's uniform stolen by a museum worker. That post about the Vietnam CMH recipient's M1911 involves a man researching a 1911 he picked up, eventually tracking it back to the man himself. Turned out that pistol killed something like 5 VC as part of his actions that got him the CMH. It was stolen from a museum with his uniform and other effects. I'm happy with my stuff being where I can see it for now!

6,804 · August 13, 2011

Having retired from museum work, I know something about this topic.

Other than what has been said already, I would offer this one thought:

There certainly ARE circumstances under which it IS a good idea to place artifacts on what is specifically termed EXTENDED LOAN. EL, or Extended Loan, is a ethical time-honored accessioning procedure designed to accomplish two things; to obtain artifacts for display that the museum does not have or cannot afford to acquire, or to act in the capacity of safe storage for potential donors.

Museums do not like to be thought of as unpaid storage lockers.

So, the upshot, if lending to a museum is being contemplated then, if it were mine to do, I would choose a smaller museum which truly did want to place at least some of my materials on display because they do not exist in their collection. At the time of transferring the objects to the museum you will receive a formal receipt, and on that form should be written the agreement as to which things are to be displayed (in addition to the full inventory of what is being lent). In a proper museum every single lent object should receive its own accession number and be catalogued accordingly.

As for thievery, it does happen in museums rarely, sadly - but far less often than in the general population and at no more risk than, say, at a major militaria show. One way I would determine the probability of this would be to lay my personal eyes on the museum's storage areas. If they are a mess, then I would decline.

Museum collections are, or ought to be, insured against loss and damage as well. Because the loss ratio of museums is extremely low in the industry, they are usually able to add items to their blanket coverage without any increase in premium unless the artifact is extraordinarily high value; in which case they will take out a rider to protect it.

I know a lot of people are "down on museums" but not all museums deserve that and the ones who don't are ticked off that professional failures in the business have poisoned the well for the rest of them. Believe me when I say that the museum profession spends an inordinate amount of time and money doing the opposite of negligence.

15,651 · August 13, 2011

All, let's keep in mind the topic of this thread "Has anyone ever lent anything to a museum?" Replies about what you have read or heard, objectively, when conveyed here are third party and just that, thus likely disingenuous.

So in the interests of the young member question and to keep the topic on track (anotherwords,let's not let this get hijacked) please allow those with personal experiences reply. Thx, s/f D.

5,196 · August 13, 2011

Austin,

I loaned a rather large collection of Home Front Memorabilia to the University of Texas at El Paso (UTEP), Centennial Musuem several years ago. They were doing a WW2 Home Front Display, focusing on the local El Paso and surrounding area. Well, they were hoping for a response from the public to loan items from the era, however no one came forward. I was introduced to the museum curator by an English professor that I had taken several classes with, and from her classes became the editor of the El Paso Community College Newspaper. Anyway, the UTEP curator had read several of my local WW2 history stories and called me. We had set up an interview and I brought a few examples of home front items that I had. (ration books, Civil Defense items, kids toys etc) Well the curator loved the items and asked if I would be willing to loan the items for 4 months which was the duration of this display. I agreed and I brought over 2 large truck loads of items. Prior to bringing the items over I was asked to write down and number each item, and the musuem would typ up an official contract listing the items one by one.

After dropping off the items it took about a week to get a letter back from the museum with the offcial list of all of my cataloged items that I agreed to loan. There was also a clause in the contract stating the museum accepted full repsonsibility to any loss or damage to the items and that I would be reimbursed through the college if anything were to happen.

The curator and I worked very hard to have this display organized and ready and on the night of the official presentation, the President of UTEP, Dr Diana Natalicio commended me for my collection.

It all went off without a hitch, and it opened many doors of opportunity. I have since been asked to help on several occasions with local museums to loan items.

This of course is one instance out of many that show that there are two sides to the coin. In my case, since this was a "revolving display" setting where specific items are displayed for a few months then put away or given back to the donor, I had no issues with donating. Now also keep in mind that if you have an extra of something that you do not need, then you may also consider donating. The ration books for example, I was not too concerned if one or two did not make it back. I have several hundred, and the few that are single do not belong to a family grouping or are not unique.

Whatever you decide to do, research and ask questions of the curator or museum staff. Take pictures of all your items and any hallmarks or markings they may have. I do this for insurance purposes, as well as for piece of mind. After you amass a collection of over 40 years, you tend to forget what you have unless you have a catalog system and photgraphic proof to substantiate a claim, if the event ever arises.

If you want to talk more about this PM me.. Good luck..

Leigh..

1,425 · August 13, 2011

Many years ago I was asked to loan a large museum in Newport News Va a WWII German Naval uniform. I had no problem with letting them display it and it was returned to me when I asked for it back.

Before handing it over, the uniform was appraised by a well known TR collector and dealer. the terms were that the item was to be displayed for public view, on loan for an extended period of time and stated it would be returned upon my asking for it back at any time. All this was in a written contract and also stated the museum was responsible for it while displayed against loss or damage in any way while in their possession . Make sure all terms are written out in the contract and consider ALL possibilities.

When I moved from the area, I asked for it to be returned and it was. They tried to get me to sell or donate it as they had no representation for that branch of the German WWII forces. I declined and took it back home.

In a nut shell, make sure that that you get a contract with specifics spelled out. Have it appraised as to value. Document it to the extreme. Make them totally responsible for it while in their possession. Make sure they have insurance to cover such things!

Steve

3,511 · August 13, 2011

It will also depend on the museums policies. I wanted to loan some 3rd ACR items to the Regiments museum, but the official policy is that they won't take items on loan. So I ended up signing over a few of the items, and also got a tour of the vault area. Man, I was drooling like a dog in front of the butchers door!

August 13, 2011

I maintain two loanable exhibits that I regularly send out, and have had no problems in over 15 years. I provide everything from backdrop for dioramas to signage and artifacts. I use dewat weapons for leagal reasons, and the museum must agree to accept responsibility for theft, damage or injury - at my stated value. Never a problem to date (I have two exhibits out currently)

I have loaned items to film crews, and will not do that again. Broken equipment, lost items, rips, tears, etc. seem to be the norm. Still waiting for a pair of boots from a film shot last winter - I may bill them for "full replacement value", if anyone has an unissued pair of US Ski Boots for sale...

Museums yes - film crews, NFW

August 14, 2011

I currently have a few items on loan to the Holocaust museum in New York City. They have had them for several years as part of the Ours to Fight For: American Jews in WW2 exhibit.

Just make sure everything is itemized and the museum signs a loan agreements stating they took everything into their possession and that everything is fully insured.

3,734 · August 14, 2011

I offered to lend a WW2 Japanese aircraft cockpit hydrolic gage to a local aviation museum, but they wanted a 10 year commitment, so I passed. Thanks, Al Hirschler in Dallas.

13,964 · August 14, 2011

I haven't loaned anything, but I have sold several items to museums who wanted the items for their collections and I was always paid well. I just recently donated a stack of vintage photos to one of the state museums. I had no interest in them and they really liked them. It was a match made in heaven! :thumbsup:

Dave

August 14, 2011

Hello all,

I am going to organise a museum exposition (with the first USMC display in my country) next year and this thread answered a lot of questions/doubts I still had about this! :thumbsup:

With kind regards,

Koen.

August 14, 2011

I currently have a selection of items on loan to the local historical museum. They are putting on a display for the 150th anniversary of the Civil War. The display is scheduled to run through the first of the year. I documented all of the items and had them sign a receipt stating that they took possession of them.

I couldn't be more pleased with the situation as the display case containing my items is the first one encountered as you walk into the museum. I was very pleased with the interaction I had between myself and the staff. I try and visit the display as much as I can just to see that everything is as it should be. It is my hope that the items are enjoyed by the people who visit the event.

Kevin

1,152 · August 14, 2011

I and two others were asked to put on a display in the local museum for the 50th anniversary of D-Day. Except for a couple of pieces everything came from us. They wanted to have displays of both theatres, late, early war and show all services. I don't remember if or what the paperwork was but one of my requirements was that everything had to be behind glass, which it was. They had some 4'X6' photos made as backdrops and we got those after the display was dismantled, it was up for 6 months.

The curator has changed his philosphy on war and has been selling off most of the museums collection.

Ray

September 1, 2011

I had given a number of items, books, models, and a few display cases to the local vietnam museum with the understanding that they would take care of everything. The models would go into the display cases for protection, was one stipulation. This didn;t happen, they tied them to the ceiling, put some on shelves or on the floor. As time passed I would find one model after another broken and would repair them as I could. Eventually I gave up on the idea and told them there would be no more donations because of the way they handled everything I left there. About six months ago I went back and after looking around at what was left I decided to take back what was salvagable. I got back three books of Nguyen Charlie, and a model of a A-1E that had a detailed cockpit. The rest of the models were a wreck and unfixable. I went looking for my helmet w/cover and found that it was missing so I took the only one with a cover that was there even though it was badly torn. The hand grenade I had left there in its cardboard tube was gone so I took another one but I did find my dummy 40mm grenade. Everything else was gone. I put these thing into my car and as I was talking to someone about their A.P.C. another member of the museum asked if I had just taken things out of the building. I told him that I had and was taking them back home and would never be back. He threatened to call the sheriff and I told him to go ahead and then we'll have a talk about how everything was mistreated of stolen. After about 5 minutes af going back and forth and hearing about how everything had just been cataloged by the Smithsonion and about how I didn't care and was so fed up with their chincy operation he gave up and I left. I haven't been back and never will be and doubt that I ever will turn anything over to another museum again.

13,438 · September 1, 2011

Do not lend anything of importance, and never items that are sentimental to you. Things do happen and sometimes you may not get it back, or it may be damaged.

Also, consider the lighting and storage/humidity conditions of any place you are thinking of loaning something, light or moisture damage can occur and it may be months before the damage is discovered. By then the item may be permanantly damaged.

RC

September 1, 2011

Its interesting seeing this thread, especially after the local news here today Arrest-for-theft-of-800-military-medals

As sad as it is sometimes items are just better off with collectors, items tend to get much better care and attention, whilst I fully support what museums do sometimes they are just the wrong place for militaria, what I find particularly bad with our national army museum is the won't tell someone they all ready have hundreds of some items, they just take and dispose of the item or put it into never to be seen again storage. (or the staff liberate it)

6,804 · September 1, 2011

Its interesting seeing this thread, especially after the local news here today Arrest-for-theft-of-800-military-medals

As sad as it is sometimes items are just better off with collectors, items tend to get much better care and attention, whilst I fully support what museums do sometimes they are just the wrong place for militaria, what I find particularly bad with our national army museum is the won't tell someone they all ready have hundreds of some items, they just take and dispose of the item or put it into never to be seen again storage. (or the staff liberate it)

This, and some other comments here... reveal a trouble museums continue to have. Since its founding in 1906 the American Association of Museums and the American Association for State and Local History (est. 1940), being the two primary professional governing organizations concerned, have tried and tried to discourage unethical and sub-par practices which lead, inevitably, to black eyes for the ones who are performing up to acceptable standards.

Having been closely involved with the AAM all my career, the only thing I can say is that most of us did all we could possibly do to prevent that kind of behavior. A person offering to donate an artifact ought to be told what purpose it will be put to, even if that is to be preservation in storage. They ought not be led to believe their treasure is welcome only to discover that later it was sold or traded away. There do exist ethical rules set forth to prevent that conduct, such as to make good faith efforts to notify such donors of a pending auction or trade so an opportunity to regain the object comes into play.

Although I cannot speak for the entire museum industry, I do feel great sadness for the poor experiences so many have had and wish so much that we could somehow put an end to it, and am certain most serious colleagues in that profession would agree. I sincerely hope that ANYONE having a bad experience with a museum will consider documenting it in writing and filing with either the AAM or AASLH (i.e. the group most likely to be involved with militaria as historical artifacts).

September 8, 2011

I do lend part of my collection for a 4 week period every year to our local museum.

I have all the items cataloged and also they insure the items, all written down. :thumbsup:

September 24, 2011

You will find many words of warning when it comes to museums. There are a couple rules to go by:

1. Do not lend your items to museums. Many won't accept responsibility for the items in question. The USAF museum system will not accept lent items at all. All items have to be signed over to them permanently with no promises made on the disposition of those items.

2. You have to understand that museums have limited room and if artifacts do not support their mission, then there is no place to display them within the context of the exhibits. Most likely, those items will either be traded for items they need or stored away.

I don't want to discourage you, but them is the facts.

-Ski

Museums that ask to borrow something should only do so if they intend on displaying them.

If you offer to lend them something for display they ought not to take it if there is no reason for having it.

If you want to help fill up their space work with them to provide materials that will help fulfill their mission but that dont look like a surplus shop full of stuff.

ASk what their plans are, show you where it will be, find out whos gonna take care of it and be involved. Dont ask them to store your stuff, they shouldnt take it anyway.

Ski I have to dispute your thems the facts statement and clarify something here.

NO MUSUEM SHOULD EVER trade or sell antying they have on LOAN. LOAN means it is yours and they are borrowing it. If you GIVE it to them as a DONATION you are turning over title to that piece and they can do with it what htey wish, but you should not donate to them if they are not properly staffed or dedicated to preservation and their mission to provide informative displays. A museum on shaky ground with no paid staff and little security and oversight is not the best place for you to consider loaning or donating your treasures. Read the forms they want oy out o sign. There are no permanent loans. There are no temporary donations.

2,722 · January 8, 2012

I have loaned my collection of general officers and uniforms on numerous occasions to museums and exhibits for years. A few things I have learned.

1. Make sure it is very clear how the exhibit is going to be displayed or viewed. Get the exact terms in writing and signed by the APPROPRIATE individuals.

APPROPRIATE individuals is the key.

i.e. Is the exhibit going to be in the public access. Meaning can they ACCESS your items. Many of times a rope was the only thing that protected my items from the public. A DO NOT TOUCH sign does not mean they will not touch. 100% of the time THEY ARE GOING TO TOUCH.

2. Proper LIGHTING. THIS will kill any item if not properly done. Hopefully, indirect or reflected lighting can be used. DO NOT display your collection under direct lighting. This is why many museums have gone "dark". No flash allowed.

3. Are the items secured. Both from the public and the staff. Very important. Some museums are not responsible for the actions of their staff.

I have knowof original items on displayed to be replaced by an items that are not original.

4.Location in the museum. Are they close to the door? The closer to a door that is used regularly the less change of climate control and the outside weather coming in and effecting you collection.

5. Glass. Is the cabinet or display of the collection behind what type of glass. This is important for the items, where museums do allow flashes, if the glass is standard high glare glass your items can be exposed to too many flashes. Again a light issue.

6.Please make sure ALL your items are logged in and photographed. A photograph of your items are very important if you ever feel they have been tampered with. Every item i have ever lent out has been pic and verified by the recieving museum. Front and back with hallmarks as well. This keeps #3 from happening and your proof if it does.

All my experinces have been favorable with the museums and or facilities where they have been displayed. SMART, SMART, SMART upfront, documented, responsible facilites is the best way to prevent problems. Go to the place you want to put them in advance on numerous occasions if possible to see how they treat and display things. Talk to the staff as a "visitor" to see how they treat "joe" public.

Hope this helps

4starchris

2,722 · January 8, 2012