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Thompson sling, What was issued?


ThompsonSavage
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ThompsonSavage

Does anyone know when the WWII production (without the 'No Buckle' marking) of Thompson slings began (and ended).

 

I'm having trouble finding a nice example here in Europe :crying: maybe I should consider buying a WWI production, which is still appropriate for a 42 production Thompson I guess

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Does anyone know when the WWII production (without the 'No Buckle' marking) of Thompson slings began (and ended).

 

I'm having trouble finding a nice example here in Europe :crying: maybe I should consider buying a WWI production, which is still appropriate for a 42 production Thompson I guess

 

 

You should be able to find some information about mid way down on this page -

 

http://www.machinegunboards.com/forums/ind...showtopic=10090

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ThompsonSavage

Wow, that is a nice website, thanks!

 

But still looking for the date when production of these slings in WWII began...

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Wow, that is a nice website, thanks!

 

But still looking for the date when production of these slings in WWII began...

 

The only WW2 Kerr slings I have seen were goldish in color and dated 1945. They are too short too.

Some of these Kerr slings were used at Winchester for the M52's and some 22's.

I have a ww1 tan Kerr on my M1 Thompson and that is the only one that seems to fit correctly.

The rest don't even come to the bottom of a 20 rd. magazine, much less a 30 rounder.

Big Larry

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Does anyone know when the WWII production (without the 'No Buckle' marking) of Thompson slings began (and ended).

 

I'm having trouble finding a nice example here in Europe :crying: maybe I should consider buying a WWI production, which is still appropriate for a 42 production Thompson I guess

A WWI Kerr sling is not appropriate for a WWII Thompson M1A1. Slings resembling Kerr slings were made specifically for the Thompson. I don't think they were marked at all.

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A WWI Kerr sling is not appropriate for a WWII Thompson M1A1

 

Please provide a published reference for your statement. Many Thompson collectors would be interested in it.

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The Thompson used a sling similar to the Kerr but with the designation...M3.

Bruce Canfield

U.S. infantry Weapons of WWII

Page 158....next.

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The Thompson used a sling similar to the Kerr but with the designation...M3.

Bruce Canfield

U.S. infantry Weapons of WWII

Page 158....next.

 

 

Authors Hill and Iannamico along with a world of Thompson collectors will disagree with that statement.

 

The M3 sling came out later in the war, all those early war photos you see of a Thompson with a Kerr sling it is the 1917 type. Most WWII Marine requistions specify the M1917 sling for Thompsons. In period photos you will see Thompsons with M1917, M1907, M1923, M3 slings with even the occasional M1 sling. Most of what you see in the photos is the M1917 sling, easly to tell from the M3 by its longer length.

 

Period manuals call for the M1923 sling however in all the photos in the manuals the Thompsons are shown using the 1917 sling.

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Authors Hill and Iannamico along with a world of Thompson collectors will disagree with that statement.

 

The M3 sling came out later in the war, all those early war photos you see of a Thompson with a Kerr sling it is the 1917 type. Most WWII Marine requistions specify the M1917 sling for Thompsons. In period photos you will see Thompsons with M1917, M1907, M1923, M3 slings with even the occasional M1 sling. Most of what you see in the photos is the M1917 sling, easly to tell from the M3 by its longer length.

 

Period manuals call for the M1923 sling however in all the photos in the manuals the Thompsons are shown using the 1917 sling.

According to Bruce Canfield the M3 sling was designed for the WWII M1A1. The original question here asked specifically about the correct sling for a WWII Thompson. Bruce Canfield is much more knowledgable than me on this subject and any number of subjects in regards to WWII weapons. Probably a lot of other stuff as well. Since we are talking about a WWII weapon the M3 is the correct sling and the Kerr sling would be wrong....if you want to be technically right. As for what soldiers, sailors, and marines did to their individual Thompsons during the war, well of course they could have used anything available.

You asked for written evidence for my remarks and I gave it to you. Please don't shoot me...I'm just the messenger.

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ThompsonSavage

Interesting discussion. But I have a 1928A1, not a M1A1.

 

So for my TSMG the M1923 or 17 sling would be appropriate.

 

 

Maybe I should refrase my question: when did production start of the M3 sling?

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According to Bruce Canfield the M3 sling was designed for the WWII M1A1. The original question here asked specifically about the correct sling for a WWII Thompson. Bruce Canfield is much more knowledgable than me on this subject and any number of subjects in regards to WWII weapons. Probably a lot of other stuff as well. Since we are talking about a WWII weapon the M3 is the correct sling and the Kerr sling would be wrong....if you want to be technically right. As for what soldiers, sailors, and marines did to their individual Thompsons during the war, well of course they could have used anything available.

You asked for written evidence for my remarks and I gave it to you. Please don't shoot me...I'm just the messenger.

 

 

The lesson you should take from this is not to use a single source for your information. I have been collecting Thompsons and Thompson related items for close to 30 years and I can safely say that while I enjoy Canfield's writings he is wrong on this particular point.

 

Considering as Canfield says the M3 sling was designed for the M1A1 Thompson, it would not have been available until after Jan 1943 when the first contract was let for the M1A1 Thompson if these slings were produced concurently. Using Canfield's statement as a base, the M3 sling would not have been available for the previous military Thompsons such as the 1928, 1928A1 and M1, all of which are WWII weapons. Keep in mind, the M1A1 was a late comer to the war. Also with the introduction of the M3 sling the 1917 slings were not immediately gathered up and destroyed, the 1917 sling soldiered on all through the war.

 

By using period photos you will see the 1917 sling to be the most commonly used sling on WWII Thompsons. I will take the evidence of hundreds of period combat photos over one writer's written statement every time.

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Interesting discussion. But I have a 1928A1, not a M1A1.

 

So for my TSMG the M1923 or 17 sling would be appropriate.

Maybe I should refrase my question: when did production start of the M3 sling?

 

 

Depending on what period of the war you are looking at I have seen photos of the following US slings used by US troops on 1928A1s -

 

M1917

M1907

M1923

M1

M3

 

The most common being the 1917 followed by the M1 or 1907. I use a 1917 sling on my 1928A1 primarily because I like to display it with early war equipment such as that used at Bataan.

 

Thompson1928a.jpg

 

 

An excellent collection of period photos can be found in Tom Laemlein's The Thompson Submachine Gun published by Armor Plate Press. I also highly recommend Frank Iannamico's American Thunder II which unfortunately is out of print. You can still find new copies floating around the various shows, I picked up a new copy as a spare last month at a show for $20.

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Interesting discussion. But I have a 1928A1, not a M1A1.

 

So for my TSMG the M1923 or 17 sling would be appropriate.

Maybe I should refrase my question: when did production start of the M3 sling?

 

ThompsonSavage,

 

Production of the M3 sling began in 1943.

 

The Thompson used a sling similar to the Kerr but with the designation...M3.

Bruce Canfield

U.S. infantry Weapons of WWII

Page 158....next.

 

Ronnie,

 

Canfield’s statement is only accurate if considered at a moment in time later in the war. It is not accurate, however, for the entire war. The M1917 sling was used for the Thompson leading up to the war, and throughout the war, including the ~2 years of the war prior to availability of the M3. The M3 was specifically designed for the Thompson, based on the experience of using the M1917 sling with that weapon. The M3 was a shorter version of the M1917 sling. The M3 sling was originally produced in the same mustard color as the M1917 sling, and was later changed to O.D. color. The mustard M3 slings were made by 3 different manufacturers, including Kerr, and those made by Kerr are marked similarly to the M1917 slings.

 

(Also keep in mind, when I say "leading up to the war," we're only talking about 1500 or so Thompsons in U.S. military service.)

 

David Albert

dalbert@sturmgewehr.com

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Charlie Flick

An interesting subject, and good commentary by all.

 

ThompsonSavage, here is one of the contemporary photos of the type mentioned by 101CH47. It appears that this soldier is carrying a M1928 Thompson with the WW1 type of Kerr sling. The caption reads: "Trooper of HQ Co.'s 2nd Armored Division, showing a .45 cal. submachinegun and the new combat uniform of the armored force. 1st Army maneuvers." Photo is dated 1941.

 

Regards,

Charlie Flick

 

2nd_Armd_Div_TSMG_1941_ed.jpg

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As a side note, dalbert operates what is currently the best online source for Thompson specific information - http://www.machinegunboards.com/forums/index.php?showforum=3

 

Not mentioning this to take away from this forum but only to offer a detailed source for additional information on the various Thompson models and accessories for them.

 

Another photo of the 1917 in action on New Georgia, 1943.

 

New_Georgia1943.jpg

 

 

Guadalcanal 1942, Thompson lower left leaned against crate has a 1917 sling attached.

 

Canal1942.jpg

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ThompsonSavage,

 

Production of the M3 sling began in 1943.

Ronnie,

 

Canfield’s statement is only accurate if considered at a moment in time later in the war. It is not accurate, however, for the entire war. The M1917 sling was used for the Thompson leading up to the war, and throughout the war, including the ~2 years of the war prior to availability of the M3. The M3 was specifically designed for the Thompson, based on the experience of using the M1917 sling with that weapon. The M3 was a shorter version of the M1917 sling. The M3 sling was originally produced in the same mustard color as the M1917 sling, and was later changed to O.D. color. The mustard M3 slings were made by 3 different manufacturers, including Kerr, and those made by Kerr are marked similarly to the M1917 slings.

 

(Also keep in mind, when I say "leading up to the war," we're only talking about 1500 or so Thompsons in U.S. military service.)

 

David Albert

dalbert@sturmgewehr.com

I don't own a Thompson but when I had a jeep I had a dummy Thompson. I had a Kerr Sling attached and when I bought Canfield's book, and read it, more than once I trashed the Kerr and went on a hunt for the M3. I guess it's true that you can learn something new everyday.

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As I stated before, the M1917 sling was also an option for the Winchester Model 52 around 1931. A smaller version was used on some M60 Winchester target rifles as well. I own a M1 Thompson, and I can tell you, the M3 sling is too short for the subgun. At it's longest, you cannot sling the gun over your shoulder. Big Larry

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