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“You’re portraying OUR unit, you must stop”


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An easy way around this would be to write to the Army unit you portray, requesting permission to provide historical interpretation of the unit's activities for educational purposes. When you get a response (which you probably will from PAO), you can now claim that you are authorized by the US Army, which will trump almost any copyright or trademark infringement that anyone could ever throw at you. And you can claim your unit is "authorized to portray" that unit. Make sure you explain that your members do not claim TO BE ACTIVE DUTY, as this can be a deal killer from DoD perspective.

The problem there is that we don't portray a specific unit at all. I have a 24st ID impression, another guy has a80th ORD impression to match his original truck (I Corps), another guy does Argentinian Army (as he actually fought in DS with that Army) and two other guys have generic non-unit-specific impressions, and another guy has voiced a desire to do USMC scout sniper but hasn't shown up for any events yet.

Besides, I seriously doubt any of this would make a difference to the guy who started all this. And when you really sit down to ponder it, does any of it make a difference? Really, what's he going to do, hire a lawyer? He's just one of those guys who thinks the hobby revolves around him.

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Oh a wanna be who probably never served in his life and thinks he's God's gift to reenacting, I've met a couple of those.

 

Scott

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"You’re portraying OUR unit, you must stop"

That's really good idea. :lol::lol::lol:

 

I propose to expand this policy in the midst of historical publicists writing about the US armed forces history. Let one person only writes about one historical aspect only. Let the US Administration give personal monopoly for particular author to write about, for instance, one campaign since the date of X up to the date of Y. For transgression of the period range an author ought to be court martialled.

 

:lol::lol::lol:

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fortworthgal
Has anyone else ever had this happen?

 

This exact thing happened a couple of years ago to someone I know. This person was trying to put together a new reenacting unit, and was contacted by an existing reenacting unit. The most insane part was that it was a well-known and supposedly authentic group in a completely different part of the country, literally thousands of miles away, supposedly concerned about potentially losing members. Whatever. :rolleyes:

 

I feel your pain, and yes, it is utterly ridiculous.

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I don't heard cases like that in France, but i'm pretty sure that's happen.... :rolleyes: Because as says by some members few messages ago, ego of some guys are just insane some times in reenactment... I'm pretty sure that's same guy who came see you for made some complaints about your equipement or your uniform , like "this thing don't be use ", " This is not good for your impression because it's appear 6 months later" and blabla like that....

And That's just killing me :( If they spent more time for built nice things together instead complain about who have got the idea to reanact this period first, reenact world would be better...

 

So my 2 cent about that, keep going a good job in DS reenactment with your unit Lee (i'm too a DS reenactor, no spec unit for the moment 'cause i built quietly my impression so...), that really worth it! And leave this moron alone with his "reference" group ;)

 

BTW, sorry if i commited some mistakes in my words, 'cause y english is a little bit rusty and have sometime, few problems for made correct sentences...

 

Cheers

 

Thierry

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Reenactors, like any hobby-ist are a strange collection of people. Having played soldiers for nearly 15 years, my attitude is simple, the only poople who 'own' a unit are those who've actually served in it, period. They are the only people we need to consider when we choose what we portray, the only people we owe anything to, if they tell me to grow up and take the uniform off then fine, anyone else just pays their money, same as I do. If you want to do it then do it, portray those who served with the dignity they've earned and that's all anyone can ask.

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Jon after 27 years of being a crew chief on airplanes in the AF that's why I decided to "reenact" one as the fellows from WW2 who did it need the recognition for their hard thankless work.

 

Scott

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An easy way around this would be to write to the Army unit you portray, requesting permission to provide historical interpretation of the unit's activities for educational purposes. When you get a response (which you probably will from PAO), you can now claim that you are authorized by the US Army, which will trump almost any copyright or trademark infringement that anyone could ever throw at you. And you can claim your unit is "authorized to portray" that unit. Make sure you explain that your members do not claim TO BE ACTIVE DUTY, as this can be a deal killer from DoD perspective.

 

Damn straight! :rolleyes:

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Tommymonkey192

Sounds to me like this effwit has some recruitment problems, no doubt due to his shining personality, so he decides that "if nobody will join my group then there will be no other groups."

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Thierry,

I recall there was some guy or group in Belgium or France that attempted to patent/copyright the 2nd Armored Insignia for their living history group.

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Thierry,

I recall there was some guy or group in Belgium or France that attempted to patent/copyright the 2nd Armored Insignia for their living history group.

yep Rick, that's completely possible, but i can't tell, because i don't practice anymore US ww2 impression. Have too mutch competitions between units and it's just completely insane at my humble opinion.... Prefer present impressions less present in reenactement like free french troops or period less know that ww2 or Vietnam. It's most agredable and spent some good time with friends in human sized events.

 

Thierry

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  • 1 month later...

Over the years I have seen a lot of arrogance in the reenactor world, this guy is "something else" Your response was quite appropriate.

 

I just looked at your web site, and outside of making me feel old :crying: ( not your fault), I think you guys are fabulous.

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Some people just do not understand how it makes them look when they say those things Lee, I would expect there unit will have Ego issues and will not be anything but power trips and drama Lol. Sucks to be them. Keep up the good work Lee.

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Sadly, the truth is that there are a lot of reenacting units out there that formed as a result of a break up of a previous unit. I myself am the recipient of this very phenomenon... The unit I joined when I began doing reenacting was a split off from a larger group. Then, two people split off from that unit and started their own due to egos and alcohol. Since I still considered them all my friends, I declared my intent to support ALL of them. I stopped hearing from the original unit and when I asked, I was told that I'd made my bed by supporting the two (who had gotten tired of the original unit's crap and moved on) who had left, and that I'd have to lie in it. Needless to say, we spun up a different unit (after checking in with other people reenacting this same unit we were looking at portraying) and now we have a rather well respected unit with a really decent impression.

 

The other end of this spectrum is the differences between the different reenacting associations. There are two major elements in reenacting. The Historical REenactment Society or HRS, and the Tactical Studies Group, or TSG, which has reflagged to become the Living History Reenactment Association or LHRA. The relationships between joe troopies is fine, its the fireworks that go on between the heads of the two organizations that creates the problems. Sad too, because most of us just want to honor those who came before us... and have a little fun in the process.

 

Wayne

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Oh a wanna be who probably never served in his life and thinks he's God's gift to reenacting, I've met a couple of those.

 

Scott

 

Or a paper pusher who couldn't (still can't) see beyond the parade ground!

 

Another way is to get approval by the veteran's association of respective unit, for instance, the FSSF UK, USA and Canadian groups got this given to them a few years ago at the Ottawa FSSFs Reunion there...

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  • 2 weeks later...
another guy does Argentinian Army (as he actually fought in DS with that Army)

 

Lee,

 

Do you have pictures up of him? I knew Argentinians on UN duty in the ME and Cyprus, but I would like to see how it all looks together.

I was a SCUD watcher in those days.

 

T

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Do you have pictures up of him? I knew Argentinians on UN duty in the ME and Cyprus, but I would like to see how it all looks together.

I was a SCUD watcher in those days.

He told me he pretty much wore standard US stuff except for the patches. They worked with the French forces.

He's to the right here:

Tanks.jpg

And to the far left here. You cab barely make out the flag patch. His nametapes were different as well but we wore out vests at the time:

AFDgroup.jpg

he did mention that a lot of their gear was DRMO marked in 1990, which of course didn't instill a lot of confidence...

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Hi to all,

My name is Matthew Mackintosh and served in Desert Shield/Desert Storm with VMFA-314 MAG 11 3rd MAW IMEF. We were deployed from August 19,1990 to March 13,1991. After reading this and getting my blood boiling I just thought I would chime in. When I retire and am in a free gun state I would love to do a DS Impression maybe not in an organized Unit but for timeline events. I wish someone would come up to me or send me a letter stating I couldnt do this or if I wanted to start a unit. The only ones that own a unit are the branches of the real military to which those branches created. Ive been doing ACW for 15 years and just got into WW2 this year but what is up with these peoples egos that they think they can dictate to others what units they can do or even what time period.

Matt

meon50cal-1.jpg

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Matthew, I hear you there. I once looked into joining a WW2 2nd ID group and was told I had to “earn” the right to wear the Indianhead patch, referring to some kind of elaborate hazing ritual at various events (that group is very far away and I would have done maybe 1-2 events a year with them at the most). I asked if wearing that patch on active duty qualified as “earning” it, and I was told it didn’t. They seemed more like some kind of odd fraternity group than anything else, so I told them where to stick their patch and moved on. :thumbdown:

I assume at some point this guy must have realized the lunacy of his demand because there has never been any response. That, and I haven’t heard of any other group in the area doing DS at all. We only set out to do maybe 4-5 events the entire year anyway. We’ll do a very large Veteran’s Day parade just south of Seattle and that’ll probably be it until we’re asked to do a timeline or something like that. It would have been very funny to run into him, but I can only assume his group never came to pass. Considering how little interest there is in the re-enacting community to do DS as a timeframe, I can’t imagine a time in the near future when one DS group runs into another to have any issues.

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We were issued one set of chocolate chips a choc chip boonie hat, choc chip body armor cover, standard 782 gear 7 mags, 2 canteens and covers. Our Alice packs were OD and we wore our safety boots, jungle boots(green canvas not black) or black combat boots. We took as many of our woodland utilities as we could fit in our seabag. It was not uncommon to see woodlands being worn with a choc chip body armor cover and since we werent issued choc chip helmet covers the woodlands were worn. Our field jackets were woodlands, we were not issued desert night time jackets, our MOPP suits were woodland so we were anything but uniform in appearance. So if I was to do an Impression from my time anything that was normal issue would have gone, we wore what we had. In the pic of me on the 50 cal i dont think i have on one piece of desert camo and that pic was taken 12-25-90 in a tower over looking the persian gulf at Sheik Isa AB Bahrain. Also no EGA's were on the choc chip utilities we didnt have any time to put them on before we deployed.

Matt

 

At the offsite ammo dump Sheik Isa AB

sc0000a3a4.jpg

 

 

After I came home from the Gulf on leave to march in the Memorial Day parade with the MCL

n1328606808_257858_2184.jpg

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This is ridiculous. Does the guy who sent you the message not realize that he is portraying a group of men who probably hadn't given their permission to be reenacted in the first place? He is plainly telling your group not to copy the group that his group is copying. His sense of entitlement is sickening. Keep doing what you are doing and hopefully you will get the pleasure of meeting this gentleman in person... and his horse.

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"Does the guy who sent you the message not realize that he is portraying a group of men who probably hadn't given their permission to be reenacted in the first place?"

 

Ok,,are you kidding me?? How many (for example) Civil War vets gave there permission for there living history units?? Anyone can do any unit, you dont need anyones "permission"

 

I do agree, just keep on doing it. simple.

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Ok,,are you kidding me??

What I am saying is, monopolizing an entire unit is absurd. This guy is telling the OP that he isn't allowed to portray a military unit that hasn't even given their consent to either reenacting group. I believe if you do plan on recreating a unit whose veterans are still around today especially one as recent as the OP's, you should at least ask permission, as common courtesy. If reenactors really were "doing it for the vets" you think they would have the decency to first ask those veterans: "Hey, do you mind if I dress up like you during the absolute scariest part of your life, run (barely) around a corn field, recreate your best friends dying next to you, and shoot my cap gun at them there nazees?" Honestly, some reenactors are excellent, they work very hard to get their set up as accurate as possible, maintain a strong respectful relationship with the veterans, that is if they are still with us; of course the Civil War veterans have passed on which you so blatantly put, after all that was 150 years ago. However, some "living historians" see reenacting as an army without physical training, a weight limit, danger, and they get to wear their very own uniform with shiny medals and accolades that they did absolutely nothing to earn. Like I said, some some reenactors are excellent, others need to stop playing dress-up.

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I think maybe it bears repeating, but our group portrays overall the entire Desert Storm period, we all represent different units (one guy wears the same rig he used when fighting for the Argentinian Army) and services. Any good DS impressions are welcome. We don’t have a unit designation.

The guy who wrote to me said we weren’t entitled to portray THE ENTIRE 1990-1991 TIME PERIOD. In my mind, this was far more outrageous of a demand that a simple shoulder patch. That said, I have personally heard people saying the other isn’t entitled to wear a certain patch only because the first guy was doing so before the second guy.

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