Linesmans tools question.

[Hitman_one]

I have a signal corps linesmans tools set in the leather belt pouch, both tools are marked 'FORVAL' and pliers are also dated(1953).Are these US made?Its not a maker i can find any info on...

Thanks.

[Gregory]

Are these pliers TL-13 or TL-13-A? Are the pliers stamped "1953" or "1953-6"?

 

That "1953" not necessarily means a date. There are TL-13-As stamped "1950" which means the ISN, not a date.

[mpguy80/08]

I agree with Gregory... The pliers should be marked TL-13 or TL-13A and the knife TL-29. The cutting blade of the pliers should have a hole cut into the cutting surface to act as strippers. I had already obtained the TL-13s and TL29 and was looking for a pouch when I caught a complete set at a reenacting event for like $25. The TL-29 knife was beat up pretty bad with a severely ground down screwdriver blade, and the pliers were Red Devil 1050 side cutter pliers with no stripper cut into the blade (the cutting surface was chipped as well...). I used this very same tool set when I worked in a commo shop in the early 90s. Military pliers were always marked TL-13 or TL-13A... any other pliers I would hesitate to call them original military pliers.

 

Wayne

[Hitman_one]

Just dug them out for a look..The pliers have TL-13 stamped on one side and FORVAL 1953 on the other.The knife is stamped TL-29 on the bolster with Forval the other side.Do these sound US issue?The cutting edge of the pliers do have holes but im not sure if its not damage?!

[Gregory]

Hitman_one,

 

Post here images of your pliers because this discussion is like a discussion about the colors without seeing them.

 

Do your pliers have one or two holes to pull down isolation from the wires? If so, they are postwar European clone of original US-made TL-13s that have never had such holes (TL-13-A only had them). Post the pics.

 

Something called "Forval" manufactured also CS-34 pouches -- as can be seen below.

[Hitman_one]

Fair point!Heres some pics.Ive no doubts about the pouch.

 

[Hitman_one]

[Hitman_one]

They look to me like the pliers were used to cut wire that was too hard and damaged the cutting edges?I may be wrong of course.

 

[elbertson]

They look to me like the pliers were used to cut wire that was too hard and damaged the cutting edges?I may be wrong of course.

 

They look like stripping notches to me, for 3 different gauges of wire

[Gregory]

Hello Hitman_one,

 

Your pliers are typical post-WWII European-made. Those clones were stamped either "TL-13" or "TL 13" although their cutting edges are characteristic for the US-made TL-13-As only.

 

The original US-made TL-13s of interwar period or WWII era have no right to have these two holes for removing isolation coat from the wires as your pliers have them. These holes are typical only for the US-made TL-13-As of mid- to late WWII period.

 

Regards

 

Gregory

[Gregory]

Hitman_one,

 

For better comparison here you have original 1930s-1940s era US-made TL-13.

[Hitman_one]

Thank you for the information.I will add them to the dutch issue m3 medic bag and belgian M1 clone pile

 

I'm now going off to sulk. :crying:

[Gregory]

Hitman_one,

 

I did not want to be the bearer of bad news.

 

Remember please that the original military issued TL-13/TL-13-A have always had their specific pattern of stamping composed of three or four elements, where element fourth was optional. The standard three elements were as follows:

 

● tool name, i.e. TL-13 or TL-13-A, where the last one sometimes were stamped TL-13A or TL-13 A

 

● manufacturer's name

 

● city and State abbreviation where company operated + U.S.A.

 

The fourth element mentioned, that optional one, was similar to the German manner of stamping many industrial goods with their so-called DIN symbol (Deutsche Industrial Norme). In the USA it was so-called ISN (Industry Standard Number). That is why there were numerous TL-13s/TL-13-As with fourth stamping 1950-6 where 1950 means the ISN and 6 means length of a tool, 6 inches in that case.

 

Below you can see selected examples. Some time ago "good people" have thieved me the TL-13-A specimen with 1950-6 stamping but I hope two other images will be informative enough for you.

 

Best regards

 

Gregory

[Gregory]

...

[norwegian blue]

Hello Gentlemen, all I can add to the very detailed and exciting information I've read so far is that these Forval tools are indeed post-war and French army

it appears the French signals corps has recently surplused quantities of these recently, some in WW2 US Army pouches, some with French 'Forval' marked pouches

I had never heard of a Forval TL-29 knife though but it makes sense. The French made and refurbished quantities of US Signal corps items (radios...) and retained the American designation for cataloguing purposes. Hope this helps

[Gregory]

Hope this helps

But of course!

 

At long last all we know what the Forval is. I like very much the TE-33 Tool Equipment so I am very grateful for your information.

 

Best regards

 

Greg

[Hitman_one]

I like them as well.

I like them even more if they are US issue!

 

Thanks for all the information.Its been an education and i now know what to look for.

 

I posted this question as ive recently seen a few of these sets appear on ebayuk and some other uk based websites.

 

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[Gregory]

Yes, the auctions are full of postwar clones stamped, among others, as can be seen below.

[norwegian blue]

you are much welcome Gregory

I have a Utica TL-13A marked 1950-6 and it's nice to hear it could be WW2

[gunbarrel]

For the benefit of new collectors, I don't think it's been mentioned on this post that the difference between the TL-13 and the TL-13A is the wire stripping notches on the later 13-A model. If it's mentioned above somewhere, please, forgive the repetition...I'm not quite awake yet.

[Gregory]

For the benefit of new collectors, I don't think it's been mentioned on this post that the difference between the TL-13 and the TL-13A is the wire stripping notches on the later 13-A model. If it's mentioned above somewhere, please, forgive the repetition...I'm not quite awake yet.

Hi GB

 

Yes, it was mentioned by me but you did it in more professional English language. Thanks, it will be more understandable now for more people.

 

you are much welcome Gregory

I have a Utica TL-13A marked 1950-6 and it's nice to hear it could be WW2

Hello,

 

The 1950-6 stamping was the same rule as in the case of tens, if not hundreds, the other US pliers and other tools. Look below - these are the pliers manufactured in the first half of 20th Century by the Peck, Stow & Wilcox Co. (called PEXTO in shorter form). They are stamped PEXTO and 500-8, where 500 is the ISN and 8 is pliers length, i.e. 8 inches.

[mireks]

Hello Gentlemen, all I can add to the very detailed and exciting information I've read so far is that these Forval tools are indeed post-war and French army

it appears the French signals corps has recently surplused quantities of these recently, some in WW2 US Army pouches, some with French 'Forval' marked pouches

I had never heard of a Forval TL-29 knife though but it makes sense. The French made and refurbished quantities of US Signal corps items (radios...) and retained the American designation for cataloguing purposes. Hope this helps

 

Hello Norwegian blue,

you are right, there are Forval made TL-29 knives as you can see the attached picture. I found this specimen in US made CS-34 pouch with Utica TL-13-A pliers in Pilsen in early nineties. I thought all time, it is US made knife as Pilsen has been liberated by US troops at the end of WWII. But reading this topic now, I am surprised with the history. It is well known, city of Pilsen was behind "Iron curtain" during cold war and I doubt, someone has smuggled just military knife there. However, does anyone know date of TL-29 knives production start by Forval? Is it possible, it has been produced for US forces during WWII like there are belgian made canteens and jerry cans?

By the way, my Forval TL-29 knife has plain blades. It is just stamped Forval and TL-29 on bolsters. I have seen another one at friend's collection, which looks the same, but has stamped some french text on blade.

 

Mireks

[hawkdriver]

It should also be noted that the TL means that it is a signal corp contracted item. There are times that other "corps" need a very similar item and chose to use their own contracts. One example is the TL flashlights, there are non-TL flashlights such as Eveready marked.

At one time, I had a pair of wire cutters with the US mark that were identical to the TL-13's that came out of a AAF tool box. So, just because the cutters are not TL marked , doesn't necessarily mean they are wrong, they just aren't signal corp correct. This still happens today and is known as a authorized substitution when originals are not available.

[mpguy80/08]

The give away to me that it was a European spec pair of pliers was the European style "1" in the "date". US pliers either have a straight line for the one or a full one with the base and a smaller"hook"at the top

 

Wayne