Why did the Army switch uniform shirts with the green uniform?

[iamck94]

I know that the current AG-415 shirt was intoduced in 1979, and the wear out date for the Tan shade 446 shirt was '84 or '85, but my question is why did they change them? Most would agree that the tan shirt is more attractive. In addition prior to the change, what was the Class B uniform. I know that the tan shirt worn under the jacket had no epaulets and had only one pocket on the wearer's left, so what shirt was worn with the green trousers in Class B's?

[elbertson]

I know that the current AG-415 shirt was intoduced in 1979, and the wear out date for the Tan shade 446 shirt was '84 or '85, but my question is why did they change them? Most would agree that the tan shirt is more attractive. In addition prior to the change, what was the Class B uniform. I know that the tan shirt worn under the jacket had no epaulets and had only one pocket on the wearer's left, so what shirt was worn with the green trousers in Class B's?

No shirt was worn with green trousers in class B...class B was khaki cotton trousers w/ khaki cotton short sleeve shirt, with epaulets. The tan poplin shirt with the class As, pre-change, was chinzy trash in my book...but still looked better than that funky green one they replaced it with.

 

To answer the why did they change it question, it was likely an attempt to save money and consolidate uniform components.

[iamck94]

Ok, thanks for the answer, but what about cold weather Class Bs? Prior to the AG 274 windbreaker what was worn with the short sleeve shirt? I know that the long sleeve shirts were ordered to be truncated or replaced by short sleeve shirts in 1966, so what was worn in the winter? Did you just have to suck it up? Or did you wear the Class A greens in the winter and the Khakis/Tans in the summer and there was no "Class B"?

 

Also thats interesting that you didn't like the tan shirt. In my opinion I think it looked great, but that may just be because in comparison to the mint shirt, it looks better. Personally what shirt would you have thought looked good with the greens?

[Allan H.]

No shirt was worn with green trousers in class B...class B was khaki cotton trousers w/ khaki cotton short sleeve shirt, with epaulets. The tan poplin shirt with the class As, pre-change, was chinzy trash in my book...but still looked better than that funky green one they replaced it with.

 

To answer the why did they change it question, it was likely an attempt to save money and consolidate uniform components.

 

This is true for the period when khakis were issued, but when I went in in 1985, the tan uniform had been phased out and we wore AG-344 trousers with the mint green short sleeve shirt as a class B uniform. The only authorized insignia worn on the shirt at the time was the name tag and slip on rank unless one was a PV-2, PFC or a Sp-4 in which gilt brass was pinned to each collar.

 

The long sleeve shirt was not allowed to be worn without a black tie. While it was acceptable to remove the class A blouse and wear the long sleeve shirt in an office environment, it was not authorized for wear by itself for formations when Class B was the uniform prescribed.

 

The black sweater was class B optional wear, but was not authorized to be worn in formation when Class B was prescribed. I have no doubts that some NCO's might have gotten away with wearing one in formation, but it was not supposed to be done.

 

Ribbons and badges weren't authorized for wear on the shirt until after Desert Storm. I THINK that is about the time when the pleated pockets on the mint green shirt showed up and the plain pockets began their wear out dates (but someone will have to look that up).

 

I should add that the long sleeve tan shirt was only authorized to be worn under the Class A blouse, and when khakis were worn, the prescribed uniform was tan pants and tan short-sleeved shirt which was much heavier than the long sleeve shirt. The SS shirt also had two chest pockets with pocket flaps. The LS shirt only had one chest pocket with no pocket flap.

 

The only issued jacket that could be worn with the class B was the overcoat. The windbreaker and later the officer's "tanker" jacket were optional purchase items.

 

Normally, Class B uniform was only prescribed for wear in hot climates. so you wouldn't have to worry about showing up for formation in Class B at Ft. Drum, NY in January. IIRC, Class B was authorized for formation by local command and was usually done between Memorial Day and Labor Day, but temperature could change those dates depending on the location of the soldier.

 

Allan

[iamck94]

Thank you Allan,

 

I didn't know that the mint shirts didn't have box pleats at first. Are you saying that the long sleeve mint AG-415 shirt was not authorized for Class B wear or that the long sleeve tan shirt wasn't authorized or Class B wear? Did the first mint green short sleeve shirts have lay flat collars or could they be buttoned up all the way?

[Allan H.]

Thank you Allan,

 

I didn't know that the mint shirts didn't have box pleats at first. Are you saying that the long sleeve mint AG-415 shirt was not authorized for Class B wear or that the long sleeve tan shirt wasn't authorized or Class B wear? Did the first mint green short sleeve shirts have lay flat collars or could they be buttoned up all the way?

 

LS shirts weren't authorized for formation as a class B uniform either in tan or in AG-415. The AG-415 LS shirt could be worn as a Class B in an office environment or under a sweater or windbreaker. LS shirts also had to be worn with a tie, even when under the sweater.

 

As for the differences between the LS and SS AG-415 shirts- the SS shirt had a bigger collar which would lay flat when worn as a class B uniform item, but they could also be buttoned to the neck and worn with a tie and worn under the Class A blouse. As I said earlier, the SS shirt had a large collar and kind of looked goofy when buttoned to the neck and worn with a tie. Imagine Dad's leisure suit being worn with a tie instead of with the shirt collar rolled over the suit coat collar.

 

Allan

[iamck94]

Well thats very interesting. Thank you Allan. I don't know much about the Army uniform between the mid 70s and early 90s.

[rogue64]

Thanks Allen, you really sparked my memory. :thumbsup:

[J_Andrews]

The LS tan shirt "had to go" because it "wasn't military looking" (when worn without the jacket) AND worse yet did not show RANK. Some people, both officer and NCO, took to wearing private-purchase tie clasps bearing miniature rank emblems. What was wanted was a shirt with more body for starching and ironing, shoulder straps, and two pockets with flaps to accept nameplates and (above) ribbons and badges, better suited to wear (even in an office environment) as an outer garment. Coincidentally, a change in color and the creation of "shoulder marks" for rank entered the picture.

 

The first light green shirts had a gray cast to the "mint" and were and ODD wool-poly blend (itchy) that did not breath, did not take starch or sizing (for creases) well. This was the ONLY type available until PRIVATE-PURCHASE cotton-blend clones showed up; everybody who cared migrated to the latter and left the itchy ones in wall lockers, etc. Maybe two years after the intro of the itchies did DA/DLA adopt a better material.

 

BTW the wear of badges and ribbons on the green shirt (in a limited way) came a few years BEFORE ODS -- chaplains were an immediate exception, wearing their cross or other device over the left pocket. Next IIRC Aviators got to wear their wings, then EOD -- skill badges that identified special-special-specialties (as we said then).I also recall Medical Dept people wearing a single BOS insignia over the left pocket. This may have been with or without "local authorization" Then there were exceptions made for troops (mostly NG) in Puerto Rico, Panama, Hawaii and Guam; then other overseas duty stations for Defense Attache office people. Even though not authorized, some folks took to wearing miniature jump wings and so forth, on the pocket flaps.

 

IIRC the Army "caved in" when the USAF (and USCG?) wore any and all badge and ribbons on their blue shirts -- about ODS time..

[Wailuna]

...the long sleeve shirts were ordered to be truncated or replaced by short sleeve shirts in 1966, so what was worn in the winter? Did you just have to suck it up? Or did you wear the Class A greens in the winter and the Khakis/Tans in the summer and there was no "Class B"?

In Korea ca. early 1960s, we wore the field jacket with our khaki uniform during cold snaps in the transitional seasons (i.e., until approx. mid October/after early April). This worked on and off duty and on and off the reservation, as civilian attire was not generally permitted outside the wire in those days.

[patches]

I know that the current AG-415 shirt was intoduced in 1979, and the wear out date for the Tan shade 446 shirt was '84 or '85, but my question is why did they change them? Most would agree that the tan shirt is more attractive. In addition prior to the change, what was the Class B uniform. I know that the tan shirt worn under the jacket had no epaulets and had only one pocket on the wearer's left, so what shirt was worn with the green trousers in Class B's?

 

At ft wainwright, alaska in the summer of (july)1981, my battalion the 4/9th inf, was given the task of forming an ad hoc company to march in fairbanks golden day's celibration(at least that's what i recall it being called)It was a aniversery of the fouding of fairbanks and took its name from the day gold was discovered in the area,leading to the forming of the first settelment here on the fair banks of the chena river.When the men where selected (which i was among) fell out for a few hours of pratice on our parade ground, named liscum field(any one know who liscum was ? he was an officer,what is he know for in army history ?)we where told that the uniform will be the class A in a non underarms mode. This was the exact time the army was switching over to the new green shirts, and the officer in charge "OIC' and the NCOs IC debated among themselves, as to if we should wear the new green shirt or the tan one, after about 20 minutes or so, the officer, a captain, who was if i can recall a staff officer who would lead the MARSCH KOMPANIE, asked outloud to our assembled formation who has in their possession this minute the new green shirt,very few raised their hand, so after confering again it was decided to wear at least for this parade the tan shirt.In the late summer early fall we all as a unit where required to purchjase this new shirt.

[elbertson]

As mentioned, field jackets were allowed to be worn w/khakis...at least in any command I was under. As far as what I would have liked to have worn as a shirt with my class As, a decent cotton khaki shirt would have worked, as they did in the past. That tan poplin shirt was an abomination, hot yet paper thin and formless. Reminded be of a $4 Kmart "dress" shirt.

[Sabrejet]

From a collector's point of view I've always found the tan shirts very hard to find..impossible even, as I still don't have one...but maybe that's partly to do with me being based in the UK rather than the US? Are original examples "out there"? Green shirts, I have plenty of...with/without slip-on rank etc....but tan poplin?! Zilch! For one of my display torsos I bought a cheap tan cotton shirt at our equivalent of Wal-Mart. Only the collar is visible so it looks ok...but obviously I'd rather have a genuine "GI" example.

 

Sabrejet :think:

[elbertson]

Well, I don't have either of the 2 I was issued, and I can't remember if I just tossed them out, or they just disintegrated from being so cheap. Maybe I'm an isolated case, but I don't remember those shirts as being too endearing to the hearts of many soldiers. Unless they made a conscious effort to keep their uniform all together, they didn't have any real possible secondary use as a shirt, unlike a khaki or fatigue shirt might for hunting/fishing/camping. I would guess anyone stuck with a quantity of them after they were phased out probably became frustrated trying to sell them and handed them out to the homeless or burned them.

[Sabrejet]

Well, I don't have either of the 2 I was issued, and I can't remember if I just tossed them out, or they just disintegrated from being so cheap. Maybe I'm an isolated case, but I don't remember those shirts as being too endearing to the hearts of many soldiers. Unless they made a conscious effort to keep their uniform all together, they didn't have any real possible secondary use as a shirt, unlike a khaki or fatigue shirt might for hunting/fishing/camping. I would guess anyone stuck with a quantity of them after they were phased out probably became frustrated trying to sell them and handed them out to the homeless or burned them.

 

 

That bad, eh? Oh well...never mind!

[elbertson]

For me they were. Put it this way, I was embarrassed when I came home from basic training to let my dad, who was a WW2 vet, see what the army now issued for a class A shirt. I didn't want him to think what he fought for was all in vain, or that the army thought so little of it's soldiers that they considered it acceptable.

Yes, I hate them.

[Wailuna]

...That bad, eh?

Oh, it was worse than that: The tan poplin shirt as issued required starch to be presentable (as did khaki and fatigue uniforms). The starched poplin shirt was about the only game in town until the so-called "wash-and-wear" variant became available (ca. late 1960s?) As if "breaking starch" wasn't bad enough, the abominable poplin shirt had collar issues as well. With or without starch, the collar points would not lay flat without mechanical restraint. Hence the "Spiffy":

[rogue64]

From a collector's point of view I've always found the tan shirts very hard to find..impossible even, as I still don't have one...but maybe that's partly to do with me being based in the UK rather than the US? Are original examples "out there"? Green shirts, I have plenty of...with/without slip-on rank etc....but tan poplin?! Zilch! For one of my display torsos I bought a cheap tan cotton shirt at our equivalent of Wal-Mart. Only the collar is visible so it looks ok...but obviously I'd rather have a genuine "GI" example.

 

Sabrejet :think:

Well sabre...I did have about four of them and would be happy to send you one but they got lost in the war.....the "war of the roses" that is :pinch:

[101CH47]

One not mentioned reason for the why - someone probably needed to have something done to show up on their OER. Seems to be the reason for a lot of needless changes in the 80s.

[bummer]

Went to basic 30 years ago and was issued both Green and Tan shirts.My 1st duty station (FT Polk) only allowed the Green ones

[Tanker1]

FWIW - I was issued the tan poplin shirt with wool class A greens when I enlisted. I do not know why the shirts changed for the green class As, but I did see an another shirt worn with greens. In April 64 I went by troop ship to Germany. We boarded in class As. On ship I saw several older NCOs wearing the long sleeve khaki shirts, with stripes on the sleeves, under the green jacket and they looked good, kind of like "old school". This was the only time I saw this. It made an interesting uniform with the jacket removed. I don't know if this was ever authorized at some time or not.

Jim

[solsys]

Don'tt hink anyone has mentioned it but the AG-415 Green shirt is no longer worn with the Army Service Uniform. Instead a white shirt is worn with the blue uniform.

[iamck94]

From a collector's point of view I've always found the tan shirts very hard to find..impossible even, as I still don't have one...but maybe that's partly to do with me being based in the UK rather than the US? Are original examples "out there"? Green shirts, I have plenty of...with/without slip-on rank etc....but tan poplin?! Zilch! For one of my display torsos I bought a cheap tan cotton shirt at our equivalent of Wal-Mart. Only the collar is visible so it looks ok...but obviously I'd rather have a genuine "GI" example.

 

Sabrejet :think:

 

Ditto. I have none and they are pretty hard to locate.

 

However the whole reason for the uniform change from the WWII ODs to the Greens, was because of the vets using the uniform in civilian life. In fact, the Green uniform yielded a 95% approval rating. I wonder what approval rating the ASU got.

[elbertson]

FWIW - I was issued the tan poplin shirt with wool class A greens when I enlisted. I do not know why the shirts changed for the green class As, but I did see an another shirt worn with greens. In April 64 I went by troop ship to Germany. We boarded in class As. On ship I saw several older NCOs wearing the long sleeve khaki shirts, with stripes on the sleeves, under the green jacket and they looked good, kind of like "old school". This was the only time I saw this. It made an interesting uniform with the jacket removed. I don't know if this was ever authorized at some time or not.

Jim

Interesting...I saw similar stuff in the early '70s that I'm sure wasn't authorized, but done in small groups in isolated locations. My recruiter ran around wearing an L2B jacket as his class A jacket. It actually didn't look too bad. The man was basically a dolt, but just sharp enough to maybe realize what would get a kid's attention.

[Sabrejet]

Ditto. I have none and they are pretty hard to locate.

 

However the whole reason for the uniform change from the WWII ODs to the Greens, was because of the vets using the uniform in civilian life. In fact, the Green uniform yielded a 95% approval rating. I wonder what approval rating the ASU got.

 

 

That's a valid point. It explains why certain items can be hard to come by, for example, Army chino pants, USN slate grey pants, USAF silver tan pants etc., all of which would have been perfectly acceptable for civilian wear with a sports coat or sweater. Also, it explains why so many WW2 items...HBT coveralls, field jackets etc., are often paint or oil-splattered. Surplus stuff made great civilian work-wear... but not so good for we collectors!

 

Sabrejet :crying: