Dirk Posted November 2, 2007 Share #1 Posted November 2, 2007 Although this one could have gone in the helmet section....most Marine collectors pass through here daily increasing the odds of an answer. What we have here is a drawing by Jeremiah's fellow Texan Capt John Thomason c.1932 sporting the famed company diamond with EGA......but on their helmets? Has anyone ever seen this before on legation marines? Yes, we know in Shanghai at this time were wearing the EGA's on their polished iron kelly's, but in Peking as well?....and enhanced with the company diamond? In my library (I think) I have one picture of Col Turnage wearing similar c. 1939-40 but he is the only one in the group to wear such.....I've got a number of pictures from the guard in the 30's and no one is wearing the diamond/EGA on their helmet. Does anyone have any info that can address this drawing...ie more photo proof etc? Gary....Bob...Darrell? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brig Posted November 3, 2007 Share #2 Posted November 3, 2007 might just be an added touch the artist put in there for the picture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirk Posted November 3, 2007 Author Share #3 Posted November 3, 2007 Brig: Thats what Gary thought, but found this image in the same publication......very very hard to see but appears to be the painted diamond on these officers helmets.....the officer on the left more visible than the others..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobgee Posted November 3, 2007 Share #4 Posted November 3, 2007 Pesonally, based on what I know about Col. John W. Thomason as an artist, I seriously doubt if he would have excercised "artistic license' in depicting any Marines in his work. He sketched what he saw. Dirk....you have picked up on something interesting here. I think the helmets depicted did exist in the period they are depicted. But I have never seen one nor a photo of one. Thomason served with the Legation Guard at Pekin from about July 1930 until Oct 1933. This gives the window for when such helmets would have been worn. If there's a photo out there, I know YOU will find it! Semper Fi.....Bobgee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brig Posted November 3, 2007 Share #5 Posted November 3, 2007 maybe just a single detachment had them made up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirk Posted November 3, 2007 Author Share #6 Posted November 3, 2007 Ok, I spent most of the afternoon looking for the image I thought I had but without success. Then I poured over my LGA's and found this image from the 1935 issue. In fact there is another image on the same page showing the same and in the 1933 issue the horse marines are wearing same.....so I guess for some period (1930-35 ?) the Legation Marines did paint their helmets...yet there are other images of the same years where they don't have the diamond. Bob, I guess your correct Thomason drew from life. Now here is area that needs some collective research. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremiahcable Posted November 3, 2007 Share #7 Posted November 3, 2007 Very interesting subject Dirk. Anything you can tie Thomason into gets my attention. Just a thought but perhaps drill/parade helmets and field/combat helmets? Two different helmets issued to each marine? The Corps has historically tight with their budget but it is something to consider. Jeremiah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirk Posted November 3, 2007 Author Share #8 Posted November 3, 2007 J: Here is another Thomason cover from '33...this time in the field with his heavy....based upon the one equipment list I have from a 4th Marine in 1937...I think just one helmet per marine....there must exist an order somewhere authorizing this, but why and under what situation would the diamond be added....one would think for parade only but these images show otherwise..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremiahcable Posted November 3, 2007 Share #9 Posted November 3, 2007 Good point Dirk. Looks like Thomason's drawings are detailing the story for us. Jeremiah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirk Posted November 3, 2007 Author Share #10 Posted November 3, 2007 J: Just look how bright those diamond's are....image most likely taken during a company's field problem exercise outside the city walls....BTW from the same issue with the Mgunners above is built around the 38th Company's year in review and much talk about Thomason's hard company marches around north china in all weather, and how once when their Chinese interpreter couldn't make a local understand what Thomasaon wanted he ended up drawing it for the man and got it. Since you spoke of of his son in the past, it also has several poor quality images of the boy firing the MG's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobgee Posted January 7, 2008 Share #11 Posted January 7, 2008 This thread is interesting in that it clearly shows how our posts sometimes 'drift' We started a discussion on the appearance of painted diamonds on the 1930's tin hats done by Marine officer/Artist/Author J.W. Thomason when he was in China and questioned whether they actually existed. The postings then drifted to undelivered mail to a WWI Marine in Thomason's company, as well as others. Well I'm back to the original thread. I remembered having a few China Marine photo albums/scrapbooks fro the 1930s and dug them out. Sure enough I have photographic evidence that China-side Marines in Pekin did in fact wear painted Diamond insignia on their tin hats. No emblem either affixed or painted. We have them on riflemen, signalmen, Mortar men and machine gunners as well as on officers. These photos were taken between 1935 and 1938. Communicators/signalmen Admiral and USMC officers inspect communications A Machine-gunner on display SEMPER FI......Bobgee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobgee Posted January 7, 2008 Share #12 Posted January 7, 2008 Here are 2 more - a Stokes Mortar crew and a riflemean. bobgee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirk Posted January 8, 2008 Author Share #13 Posted January 8, 2008 Bob...outstanding! ....no doubt these existed now. thanks for the refocus to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobgee Posted January 8, 2008 Share #14 Posted January 8, 2008 Bob...outstanding! ....no doubt these existed now. thanks for the refocus to. Wonder how long it will be before a Kelly helmet with a painted Diamond turns up on EBay.....now that we know they actually existed. Semper Fi.....Bobgee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GLM Posted January 8, 2008 Share #15 Posted January 8, 2008 Wonder how long it will be before a Kelly helmet with a painted Diamond turns up on EBay.....now that we know they actually existed.Semper Fi.....Bobgee Great photos, Bob! Fortunately, they're black & white photos, so anyones guess is up in the air as to what color those diamonds are. Something we probably dont need to discuss either. Certainly wont stop a real crook from trying to peddle a half dozen on eBay, but it might slow them down. s/f, Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usmcaviator Posted January 9, 2008 Share #16 Posted January 9, 2008 The diamonds could potentially be a way to identify "red force" "blue force" for war games. Seeing how the helmet's profile is too low for a colored band to fit. Just a Marine's immediate thought. All the pictures seem to show some form of action that would be seen in such games. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobgee Posted January 9, 2008 Share #17 Posted January 9, 2008 The diamonds could potentially be a way to identify "red force" "blue force" for war games. Seeing how the helmet's profile is too low for a colored band to fit. Just a Marine's immediate thought. All the pictures seem to show some form of action that would be seen in such games. Mike Mike...I concur. That may actually be the explanation for the painted Diamonds. I expect they may also have corresponded to the company colors as seen on the Fur Hat back plates. Semper Fi....Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teufelhunde.ret Posted April 23, 2008 Share #18 Posted April 23, 2008 Mike...I concur. That may actually be the explanation for the painted Diamonds. I expect they may also have corresponded to the company colors as seen on the Fur Hat back plates. Semper Fi....Bob Posted is an example of such a plate, as seen on the Fur hats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usmcaviator Posted May 6, 2008 Share #19 Posted May 6, 2008 I believe that one is in the Manifor collection, thanks for posting Darrell. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now