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Dirk

EGA inside a Company Diamond

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Although this one could have gone in the helmet section....most Marine collectors pass through here daily increasing the odds of an answer. What we have here is a drawing by Jeremiah's fellow Texan Capt John Thomason c.1932 sporting the famed company diamond with EGA......but on their helmets? Has anyone ever seen this before on legation marines? Yes, we know in Shanghai at this time were wearing the EGA's on their polished iron kelly's, but in Peking as well?....and enhanced with the company diamond? In my library (I think) I have one picture of Col Turnage wearing similar c. 1939-40 but he is the only one in the group to wear such.....I've got a number of pictures from the guard in the 30's and no one is wearing the diamond/EGA on their helmet. Does anyone have any info that can address this drawing...ie more photo proof etc? Gary....Bob...Darrell?

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might just be an added touch the artist put in there for the picture


-Brig
GySgt/USMC/0369
RSU-Quantico


"FOR OUR TOMORROWS, THEY GAVE THEIR TODAYS"
RIP
Sgt Jesse 'Jeff Nasty' Balthaser
Sgt John P Huling
Cpl Carlos 'Gilo Monster' Gilorozco
Cpl Stephen C 'Socks' Sockalosky
LCpl Joshua A 'Scottie' Scott
LCpl Jason Lee 'Birdman' Frye
LCpl Nicolas B Morrison
LCpl Jon T Hicks
LCpl Osbrany 'Oz' Montes De Oca
Pvt Lewis T D Calapini
'The SOI 5'

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Brig: Thats what Gary thought, but found this image in the same publication......very very hard to see but appears to be the painted diamond on these officers helmets.....the officer on the left more visible than the others.....

marine_088.jpg


Always looking for items associated with the China Marines! Visit chinamarine.org

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Pesonally, based on what I know about Col. John W. Thomason as an artist, I seriously doubt if he would have excercised "artistic license' in depicting any Marines in his work. He sketched what he saw.

Dirk....you have picked up on something interesting here. I think the helmets depicted did exist in the period they are depicted. But I have never seen one nor a photo of one. Thomason served with the Legation Guard at Pekin from about July 1930 until Oct 1933. This gives the window for when such helmets would have been worn. If there's a photo out there, I know YOU will find it!

Semper Fi.....Bobgee


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"I have only two men out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (Message sent by 1st Lt. Clifton B. Cates. USMC, 96th Co., Soissons, 19 July 1918 - later 19th Commandant of the Marine Corps 1948-1952)

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maybe just a single detachment had them made up think.gif


-Brig
GySgt/USMC/0369
RSU-Quantico


"FOR OUR TOMORROWS, THEY GAVE THEIR TODAYS"
RIP
Sgt Jesse 'Jeff Nasty' Balthaser
Sgt John P Huling
Cpl Carlos 'Gilo Monster' Gilorozco
Cpl Stephen C 'Socks' Sockalosky
LCpl Joshua A 'Scottie' Scott
LCpl Jason Lee 'Birdman' Frye
LCpl Nicolas B Morrison
LCpl Jon T Hicks
LCpl Osbrany 'Oz' Montes De Oca
Pvt Lewis T D Calapini
'The SOI 5'

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Ok, I spent most of the afternoon looking for the image I thought I had but without success. Then I poured over my LGA's and found this image from the 1935 issue. In fact there is another image on the same page showing the same and in the 1933 issue the horse marines are wearing same.....so I guess for some period (1930-35 ?) the Legation Marines did paint their helmets...yet there are other images of the same years where they don't have the diamond. Bob, I guess your correct Thomason drew from life. Now here is area that needs some collective research.

marine_089.jpg


Always looking for items associated with the China Marines! Visit chinamarine.org

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Very interesting subject Dirk. Anything you can tie Thomason into gets my attention. Just a thought but perhaps drill/parade helmets and field/combat helmets? Two different helmets issued to each marine? The Corps has historically tight with their budget but it is something to consider.

 

Jeremiah


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Actively seeking WW1 4th and 5th Brigade USMC helmets and also a named WW2 Raider green blouse.
I'd rather be a sparrow than a snail, if I could I surely would....

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J: Here is another Thomason cover from '33...this time in the field with his heavy....based upon the one equipment list I have from a 4th Marine in 1937...I think just one helmet per marine....there must exist an order somewhere authorizing this, but why and under what situation would the diamond be added....one would think for parade only but these images show otherwise.....

marine90a.jpg


Always looking for items associated with the China Marines! Visit chinamarine.org

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Good point Dirk. Looks like Thomason's drawings are detailing the story for us.

 

Jeremiah


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Actively seeking WW1 4th and 5th Brigade USMC helmets and also a named WW2 Raider green blouse.
I'd rather be a sparrow than a snail, if I could I surely would....

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J: Just look how bright those diamond's are....image most likely taken during a company's field problem exercise outside the city walls....BTW from the same issue with the Mgunners above is built around the 38th Company's year in review and much talk about Thomason's hard company marches around north china in all weather, and how once when their Chinese interpreter couldn't make a local understand what Thomasaon wanted he ended up drawing it for the man and got it. Since you spoke of of his son in the past, it also has several poor quality images of the boy firing the MG's.


Always looking for items associated with the China Marines! Visit chinamarine.org

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This thread is interesting in that it clearly shows how our posts sometimes 'drift' We started a discussion on the appearance of painted diamonds on the 1930's tin hats done by Marine officer/Artist/Author J.W. Thomason when he was in China and questioned whether they actually existed. The postings then drifted to undelivered mail to a WWI Marine in Thomason's company, as well as others.

 

Well I'm back to the original thread. I remembered having a few China Marine photo albums/scrapbooks fro the 1930s and dug them out. Sure enough I have photographic evidence that China-side Marines in Pekin did in fact wear painted Diamond insignia on their tin hats. No emblem either affixed or painted. We have them on riflemen, signalmen, Mortar men and machine gunners as well as on officers. These photos were taken between 1935 and 1938.

Commununicators_Peiping.JPG

Communicators/signalmen

Admiral_views_comm._Tin_Hats_w_shield.JPG

Admiral and USMC officers inspect communications

A Machine-gunner on display

MG_gunner_w_tin_hat.JPG

SEMPER FI......Bobgee


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"I have only two men out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (Message sent by 1st Lt. Clifton B. Cates. USMC, 96th Co., Soissons, 19 July 1918 - later 19th Commandant of the Marine Corps 1948-1952)

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Here are 2 more - a Stokes Mortar crew and a riflemean.

bobgee

 

Tin_Hat__Rifle__Overcoat__cartridge_belt.JPG

Stokes_Mortar_Crew_Tin_Hats.JPG


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"I have only two men out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (Message sent by 1st Lt. Clifton B. Cates. USMC, 96th Co., Soissons, 19 July 1918 - later 19th Commandant of the Marine Corps 1948-1952)

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Bob...outstanding! ....no doubt these existed now. thanks for the refocus to.


Always looking for items associated with the China Marines! Visit chinamarine.org

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Bob...outstanding! ....no doubt these existed now. thanks for the refocus to.

 

Wonder how long it will be before a Kelly helmet with a painted Diamond turns up on EBay.....now that we know they actually existed.

Semper Fi.....Bobgee


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"I have only two men out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (Message sent by 1st Lt. Clifton B. Cates. USMC, 96th Co., Soissons, 19 July 1918 - later 19th Commandant of the Marine Corps 1948-1952)

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Wonder how long it will be before a Kelly helmet with a painted Diamond turns up on EBay.....now that we know they actually existed.

Semper Fi.....Bobgee

 

Great photos, Bob! Fortunately, they're black & white photos, so anyones guess is up in the air as to what color those diamonds are. Something we probably dont need to discuss either. Certainly wont stop a real crook from trying to peddle a half dozen on eBay, but it might slow them down.

 

s/f, Gary


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**PLEASE NOTE: THIS COMMUNITY MEMBER HAS SADLY PASSED AWAY**

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/15996-please-read-gary-mohrlang-glm/

 

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The diamonds could potentially be a way to identify "red force" "blue force" for war games. Seeing how the helmet's profile is too low for a colored band to fit. Just a Marine's immediate thought. All the pictures seem to show some form of action that would be seen in such games.

 

Mike


Mike Manifor
Buying and selling Military Antiques. Specializing in hat and collar insignia (EGAs) of the USMC.
Top dollar paid.
[email protected]
My website:www.eagleglobeandanchor.com

Visit my EGA reference section: http://www.eagleglobeandanchor.com/EGA_Reference_Section.html

 


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The diamonds could potentially be a way to identify "red force" "blue force" for war games. Seeing how the helmet's profile is too low for a colored band to fit. Just a Marine's immediate thought. All the pictures seem to show some form of action that would be seen in such games.

 

Mike

 

Mike...I concur. That may actually be the explanation for the painted Diamonds. I expect they may also have corresponded to the company colors as seen on the Fur Hat back plates.

Semper Fi....Bob


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"I have only two men out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (Message sent by 1st Lt. Clifton B. Cates. USMC, 96th Co., Soissons, 19 July 1918 - later 19th Commandant of the Marine Corps 1948-1952)

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Mike...I concur. That may actually be the explanation for the painted Diamonds. I expect they may also have corresponded to the company colors as seen on the Fur Hat back plates.

Semper Fi....Bob

 

Posted is an example of such a plate, as seen on the Fur hats.

china_marine_diamond.jpg



The bended knee is not a tradition of our Corps. (General A. A. Vandegrift, USMC, 5 May 1946)

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