Jump to content

WWI Field Gear Re-Issued for 1942?


Recommended Posts

This may seem like a stupid question but I have never really had a straight forward answer...

 

It's March 1942... I have just been issued a standard rifleman's kit.

 

How likely is it that some of the kit i.e. cartridge belt, canteen, e-tools etc. would have been WWI re-issued equipment?

 

Or would it have been strictly '41 - '42 dated equipment?

 

I have seen plenty of period photos showing soldiers in Africa, Sicily etc. with what appears to be M1918 canteens,

but you can't know for sure what those actual dates are on the equipment in general.

 

Thanks for the help. :thumbsup:

Link to post
Share on other sites

I once spoke to an 82nd airborne reenactor and he carried a WW1 issue medical pouch on his web gear. He explained that sometimes serviceable items regardless of age could be re-issued. I am no expert in field gear, but I have seen pictures such as this. When I enlisted in the Navy in 1987, I was issued a Vietnam era USN foul weather jacket (A2 type) for use. One time during at sea vertrep, we got cases of steaks that were stamped "Rejected by U.S. Bureau of Prisons" and to top it off- they had been expired for 5 years... steered away from "Steak Night" for a long time :).... so if it is in inventory, I guess it is fair game !!!

If you listened to me more, I would yell at you less; maybe - Ancient CPO Proverb

 

Steve

Link to post
Share on other sites

I can give no specific references but I certainly have seen troops, especially rear echelon troops, wearing WWI gear. This went on throughout the war, such that secondary and tertiary troops were issued bolt action rifles (1903 and even 1917) to the end of the conflict.

 

You can commonly see in photos of the late island campaigns, shots of first echelon battle troops wearing M1921 packs with T-handle shovels.

 

Tom

Learn to ride hard, shoot straight, dance well and so live that you can, if necessary, look any man in the eye and tell him to go to Hell! US Cavalry Manual, 1923

WWII APS

 

donation2007.gifdonation2008.gif

donation2009.gifdonation2011.gif

**PLEASE NOTE: THIS COMMUNITY MEMBER HAS SADLY PASSED AWAY**

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Try and find a picture of GIs in WWII without wearing some kind of WWI gear. :rolleyes:

Justin

 

Indeed...

 

Thanks for the comments guys, that's pretty much what I figured.

 

From my experience, I have seen examples of veterans serving in the late ETO

coming home with all types of equipment ranging from '41 on.

I would imagine if it were in abundance and serviceable, it was there for the taking.

 

Thanks :thumbsup:

Link to post
Share on other sites
You can see photos of WW1 gear still being used in Vietnam. .45 magazine pockets are one of the most common things. There have been statements on here of people being issued WW1 gear in the 90's.

Don't forget a few M1918 Mark 1s were recycled a few times, albeit they were a hair late for WW1. Hey, if it still works, why get rid of it?

The beatings will continue until morale has improved..

Link to post
Share on other sites

It may also have something to do with if the unit was a new one formed after WW11 started or one already in existance like the federalized national guard or regular divisions which had an existing inventory of gear which at the start of the war was virtually all from WW1. My father was drafted in 1941 into the 33rd Division (Ill national guard) and everything except their uniforms was from WW1.

Link to post
Share on other sites
It may also have something to do with if the unit was a new one formed after WW11 started or one already in existance like the federalized national guard or regular divisions which had an existing inventory of gear which at the start of the war was virtually all from WW1. My father was drafted in 1941 into the 33rd Division (Ill national guard) and everything except their uniforms was from WW1.

 

That's interesting...

This is more or less for a project I'm working on based on my grandfather. He supposedly served with the 15th combat engineers, however, I'm still waiting on confirmation about that from other family members. If he was indeed with that unit, their lineage dates back to WWI, so it's very possible he could have been issued WWI dated gear.

 

 

Thanks everyone, for the info.

Link to post
Share on other sites

My dad told me once that he carried through the war equipment he had been issued with the Idaho National Guard in early 1941, marked with his outfit, the 116th Cavalry Regiment. He tossed it all in a bin when he came home from the Pacific in late 1945 at Ft. Lawton Wa. I'm sure some of that equipment was WWI.

"They'd rather be alive than free; poor dumb bastards."

Link to post
Share on other sites

My well-travelled Oct. 1818 Mills cartridge belt has a story to tell

post-10420-1311474977.jpg

Obviously enbloc clips for an M1 spent some time in this belt

HTH

Tim

This may seem like a stupid question but I have never really had a straight forward answer...

 

It's March 1942... I have just been issued a standard rifleman's kit.

 

How likely is it that some of the kit i.e. cartridge belt, canteen, e-tools etc. would have been WWI re-issued equipment?

 

Or would it have been strictly '41 - '42 dated equipment?

 

I have seen plenty of period photos showing soldiers in Africa, Sicily etc. with what appears to be M1918 canteens,

but you can't know for sure what those actual dates are on the equipment in general.

 

Thanks for the help. :thumbsup:

donation2012.gifdonation2013.gifdonation2015.gif











Link to post
Share on other sites

I have numerous photographs of both Army and Marine troops rigged with W.W.I gear; it was fairly common for Airborne units to be issued Mounted 9-pocket Cartridge Belts, for example.

As has already been said here- if it worked, it served.

Support our troops...abandoning the War on Terror is not an affordable luxury.

I'm so old, I still call W.W.II U.S. militaria "war surplus".

 

God's blessings in the Name of our Lord Jesus- Jim Robertson

Link to post
Share on other sites

And here's one of my 1918 dated meatcans with the inscription on the face done by the guy who received it in WWII...

post-60-1311519157.jpg

post-60-1311519170.jpg

A member of this fine site since December 16, 2006....Member # 60

donation2007.gifdonation2008.gifdonation2009.gifdonation2010.gif
donation2011.gifdonation2012.gifdonation2013.gifdonation2014.gifdonation2015.gifdonation2016.gif

donation2017.gifdonation2018.gifdonation2019.gifdonation2020.gif


 


 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Basically it was... What was available in the warehouse.

 

A National Guard would report with what they had in the armory. Draftees show up, are issued and start training with what was in the camp. A shipment of new stuff arrives, it goes to the next guys. When these draftees show up at the Ports of Embarkation, such as Camp Shanks in Orangeburg and Camp Upton on Suffolk County, both in New York, they were issued whatever they did not have. Inb some cases, a unit that was already earmarked for a specific mission and given priority might get supplies and equipment issue than another one that is not up to par but may have been there longer.

 

There was an online book of a self-propelled artillery unit. I forgot the designation. They trained in the US, got shipped to Scotland. They trained with cannons borrowed from other units. Then moved down from Scotland to the port they were to sail for Normandy on D+20. It was not until D+15 they got their assigned self-propelled guns, new from the US.

 

My father's unit, the 762nd AAA Gun Battalion, was formed on Panama from the deactivated 72nd, 73rd, and 82nd Coast Artillery (Antiaircraft Artillery) regiments. The unit would have used what the coast artillery antiaircraft gun battalions had used. Probably 3-inch AA guns, since the newer 90mm AA guns may have been sent to the Pacific and to other AA units that were being formed and shipped to Europe. Or they may have received 90 mm AA guns, if the Panama contingent had received them before the inactivation.

 

Then this unit, along with the 891st AAA Gun Battalion were shipped back to the US September 44. They were instructed to leave their guns behind but take their prime movers (gun tractors) with them. They eventually arrived at Los Angeles, Burbank, and San Diego, all part of the Los Angeles Air Defense Region. Where they got 90 mm AA guns.

 

It was what was available. In some cases as an emergency measure. In others because of design.

 

At Corregidor, one of the batteries of the 60th Coast Artillery (Antiaircraft Artillery), Battery Erie, was sent to Bataan to help defend Clark Field against the Japanese attack. This battery was a searchlight battery. The searchlight batteries had a primitive radar, the SCR 261, and sound locators. When the forces in Bataan were to be surrendered, this battery returned to Corregidor without equipment. Their only radar was lost. So were their 60-inch searchlights. So one section received 30-inch Navy searchlights as replacement. The rest was assigned to the site of a mortar battery that was not manned as there were no soldiers for it at the time. These soldiers had never been trained to fire guns. Had never done so. Their commander, however, had received training and fired several different coast artillery weapons. You gussed it. He asked permission and received it to train his soldiers on firing mortars! They did so...

 

Take care,

 

Luis R.

Link to post
Share on other sites
I have seen plenty of period photos showing soldiers in Africa, Sicily etc. with what appears to be M1918 canteens,

but you can't know for sure what those actual dates are on the equipment in general.

I may post a pic from Korean War where WWI canteen can be seen.

 

You can see photos of WW1 gear still being used in Vietnam. .45 magazine pockets are one of the most common things. There have been statements on here of people being issued WW1 gear in the 90's.

In late gunboards.com a soldier of the Desert Storm wrote that he received for that war originally wrapped "brand-new" M1910 canteen dated 1918.

donation2008.gifdonation2009.gifdonation2010.gifdonation2011.gifdonation2012.gif

Link to post
Share on other sites
And here's one of my 1918 dated meatcans with the inscription on the face done by the guy who received it in WWII...

Thank you for posting this dot style engraved meatcan. Always interesting to see the different styles/methods guys used to engrave stuff. Any provenance for this piece, like where the guy served? Thanks again for sharing this great piece!

 

 

Actively buying WW2 jungle gear & equipage, items unique to the Pacific Theater, Battle of Guadalcanal items, Battle of Okinawa items, WW2 27th ID items, WW2 11th Airborne items, WW2 Marine Raider items, Pacific War "trench art", WW2 Japanese items.

 

Looking for wartime and post-war newsletters of the 27th ID ("The Orion Gallivanter"), 11th Airborne ("Winds Aloft", "Voice of The Angels", etc.), 96th ID ("The Deadeye Dispatch"), Marine Raiders ("The Dope Sheet", "The Raider Patch", etc.).

Link to post
Share on other sites
Thank you for posting this dot style engraved meatcan. Always interesting to see the different styles/methods guys used to engrave stuff. Any provenance for this piece, like where the guy served? Thanks again for sharing this great piece!

 

Sorry to say I'm a lazy boy and haven't done any research on this guy. I bought the meatcan with eating utensils at a local flea market here in central Ohio for what it's worth.

 

Kim

A member of this fine site since December 16, 2006....Member # 60

donation2007.gifdonation2008.gifdonation2009.gifdonation2010.gif
donation2011.gifdonation2012.gifdonation2013.gifdonation2014.gifdonation2015.gifdonation2016.gif

donation2017.gifdonation2018.gifdonation2019.gifdonation2020.gif


 


 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...

Basically I'll echo what has already been stated. It would be not uncommon for a soldier in 1942 to have quite a bit WW1 "surplus". Mass manufacture of the post WW1 pattern stuff really didn't kick in until late 1941. There were thousands of items still serviceable and even thousands never issued!

 

Also, a serious re-enactor/collector flaw is to designate things. We know the difference between an 1941 field jacket, a tanker jacket, and an M43...most veterans when you ask them "did you wear a M?..." they look at you confused and say "it was a field jacket, OD, and kept me warm". A 1917 dated ten pocket belt holds just as many Garand clips as 1943 dated M23 belt and just as well. No one went around to collect all the "outdated gear" from troops and ship it off to support units.

 

The army does not throw away stuff until it has too, and doesn't get new stuff if the old is still serviceable (front line as well ans rear area). Here is an example from modern history that I am sure applies all the way back to the Roman Legions...or at least 1942.

 

When I was in ROTC in 1991, I worked in the supply. When the cadets came to draw their gear (TA-50) you got what was on hand. We reached into the boxes of pistol belts (sorted by size) and handed you one regardless. We had one khaki 42 dated one, a couple M36 in OD#7, several M56 with both regular and Davie buckles, a couple M67, and all types of ALICE belts including a brand new (at the time) box of the ones with the black plastic buckles that were adopted THAT year. When we did inventory we listed "Belt, Pistol" and it was never by type, we totaled up what we had. If we had too many that was that, if not enough we get shipped a box of the latest, these supplemented the old and did not replace them. Also it was the supply Sgt's rule to always issue the newest stuff LAST! All of our gear was like this. We even had M56 E-Tools and the Vietnam era half-sized rucksacks and frames. One guy in our group was concurrently in the Reserves. He had a BEAUTIFUL M67 Davie buckle belt issued to him in bootcamp the year before!

 

So a WW2 recruit in 1942 could end up with a 1918 dated M1910 Haversack, a 1919 dated Mills belt, a 1941 dated M23 first aid pouch, a 1942 dated pack carrier, a 1917 dated canteen, etc etc etc.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Chris Fischer

F-Troop

Link to post
Share on other sites

I entered the Marine Corps in 1955. There was still some WW1 stuff floating around and a LOT of WW II stuff. In fact if my memory serves me correctly most of the web gear was WW II with an 1918 date showing up now and then.

 

Paul

Salome, AZ

Link to post
Share on other sites

I bought a large box of mint, unissued WWII equipment that had been "liberated" by a supply sargeant during WWII and sent home. This absolutely mint, M1917 dismounted belt was inside the box, which leads me to believe that it was on the supply depots shelf and ready to be issued during WWII if need be.

 

BTW. Sorry for the small pictures.

post-299-1312638942.jpg

post-299-1312639068.jpg

"No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor, dumb, bastard die for his country" George Pattons speech to the Third Army.

 

donation2008.gif

Link to post
Share on other sites

Was looking at a USMC training platoon "year book" from 1968 and I was struck buy the photos of guys pitching tents and on a road hike with packs which showed many of them still using the WW11 style camo shelter halfs, some with plain OD shelter halfs and I saw a Mitchell patern. I don't know if these were pictures taken while this particular class was training in 1968 or older stock photos used in every book for years, but my point is that it certainly shows what others have already stated, that they used items from previous time periods for many years after manufacture. If you think about it, gear made in 1918 used in 1942 would be like gear made in 1997 (which doesn't seem that long ago) issued in 2011. Even more so if you remember that the 1910 gear ( with some modification) was still the basic pattern for most of WW11.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.