Manchu Warrior Posted November 1, 2007 Share #1 Posted November 1, 2007 I purchased a bag of army odds and ends today and I have not been able to ID these two patches. Also, I have a question about the two tapes. I was in the NG for a few years and I never saw anyone wearing a tape such as this one. It says FL GUARD on it which I assume means Florida. The other tape says PA MIL RESERVE, for Pennsylvania Military Reserve? Just would like to know if these are authorized or are they possibly for civilians that work for the NG? Any help is appreciated. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laury Allison Posted November 1, 2007 Share #2 Posted November 1, 2007 I purchased a bag of army odds and ends today and I have not been able to ID these two patches. Also, I have a question about the two tapes. I was in the NG for a few years and I never saw anyone wearing a tape such as this one. It says FL GUARD on it which I assume means Florida. The other tape says PA MIL RESERVE, for Pennsylvania Military Reserve? Just would like to know if these are authorized or are they possibly for civilians that work for the NG? Any help is appreciated. Thanks The patch on the left is the New York Guard and the one on the right is the Pennsylvania Military Reserve. These are not National Guard, but are more like the backup for the NG. The theory is that if the NG were to be activated and mobilized, the state reserve forces would then occupy the armories. The tapes are worn by those units since technically, they aren't allowed to wear federal uniforms...so this way their tapes don't say U.S. Army or U.S. Air Force as the National Guards troops do. Laury Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manchu Warrior Posted November 1, 2007 Author Share #3 Posted November 1, 2007 The patch on the left is the New York Guard and the one on the right is the Pennsylvania Military Reserve. These are not National Guard, but are more like the backup for the NG. The theory is that if the NG were to be activated and mobilized, the state reserve forces would then occupy the armories. The tapes are worn by those units since technically, they aren't allowed to wear federal uniforms...so this way their tapes don't say U.S. Army or U.S. Air Force as the National Guards troops do. Laury [/ I remember some older gentlmen hanging around our armory and they were suppose to help out if we were activated. This was their patch. I appreciate the info. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laury Allison Posted November 1, 2007 Share #4 Posted November 1, 2007 No problem. I think that here in Alabama it is the Alabama State Defense Force. They aren't completely standardized from state to state from what I've been able to tell...so some of the names vary between states too. They don't have as much exposure as the NG either. I remember some Tennessee State Guard people trying to recruit at the Nashville Military Show several years ago. Laury Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Ragan Posted November 1, 2007 Share #5 Posted November 1, 2007 The states that have "State Guard" units, use them as a backup for the National Guard if the NG is federalized. Many are MP units and would be involved in duties the National Guard would normally, if they were at home, such as riot duty, disaster relief, etc. Many people confuse the two organizations. The state guard units cannot be federalized; they serve only in their home states. Many state guard organizations take personnel that wouldn't otherwise qualify for federal service, such as some people with health problems and over age people. Many folks who serve in state guard organizations are veterans of regular military service. Not all states have a state guard organization and many that do, have small numbers of people. New York has had a very active state guard organization for decades. Here in Texas, we have a small state guard that basically serves as a cadre in case the organization needs to be enlarged to meet some emergency. Maybe some of our forum members who are members of an active state guard unit will chime in here and add more info. Hope this little bit helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DM1975 Posted November 1, 2007 Share #6 Posted November 1, 2007 I was a member of the Texas State Guard 16-17 years ago, before I joined the Marine Corps. We were trained only in riot control and by trained, I mean we were told that we had equipment for that purpose and that we could be called up to use it. Only thing we ever did was to learn how to march, kind-of, and have a few meetings. I was 16 at the time and we were supposed to get kahki uniforms I believe, but we never did. The name tapes were to say State Guard on them IIRC. We met at the National Guard Armory for our meetings. Only thing other than that I remember was that I had to get released from them before I enlisted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNY Militaria Posted November 1, 2007 Share #7 Posted November 1, 2007 The states that have "State Guard" units, use them as a backup for the National Guard if the NG is federalized. Many are MP units and would be involved in duties the National Guard would normally, if they were at home, such as riot duty, disaster relief, etc. Many people confuse the two organizations. The state guard units cannot be federalized; they serve only in their home states. Many state guard organizations take personnel that wouldn't otherwise qualify for federal service, such as some people with health problems and over age people. Many folks who serve in state guard organizations are veterans of regular military service. Not all states have a state guard organization and many that do, have small numbers of people. New York has had a very active state guard organization for decades. Here in Texas, we have a small state guard that basically serves as a cadre in case the organization needs to be enlarged to meet some emergency.Maybe some of our forum members who are members of an active state guard unit will chime in here and add more info. Hope this little bit helps. I worked with a BN. Commander of one NYG BN a few years ago, IIRC there were about 25 active members in his unit. Seemed small to me, but they were great people! They went down to NYC after 9/11 as well to help with the cleanup and security as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steverino Posted November 1, 2007 Share #8 Posted November 1, 2007 The patch on the left is the New York Guard and the one on the right is the Pennsylvania Military Reserve. These are not National Guard, but are more like the backup for the NG. The theory is that if the NG were to be activated and mobilized, the state reserve forces would then occupy the armories. The tapes are worn by those units since technically, they aren't allowed to wear federal uniforms...so this way their tapes don't say U.S. Army or U.S. Air Force as the National Guards troops do. Laury Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steverino Posted November 1, 2007 Share #9 Posted November 1, 2007 The patch on the left is for the FLORIDA Guard, not the NY Guard. The patches are very similar. In fact, they only differ on the right side of the patch. The left side is identical between the FL and NY Guard patches. Steve Johnson Patch Johnson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laury Allison Posted November 2, 2007 Share #10 Posted November 2, 2007 The patch on the left is for the FLORIDA Guard, not the NY Guard. The patches are very similar. In fact, they only differ on the right side of the patch. The left side is identical between the FL and NY Guard patches. Steve Johnson Patch Johnson Good catch there...I just looked at it quickly and didn't pay attention to all of it. Laury Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steverino Posted November 4, 2007 Share #11 Posted November 4, 2007 Good catch there...I just looked at it quickly and didn't pay attention to all of it. Laury Laury, The Florida Guard also has a beret flash very similar to their SSI, except it is about 1/2 the size and it says "FL GD" in black. The beret flash is obviously in color as there is no subdued version. Steve Johnson Patch Johnson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laury Allison Posted November 4, 2007 Share #12 Posted November 4, 2007 Laury, The Florida Guard also has a beret flash very similar to their SSI, except it is about 1/2 the size and it says "FL GD" in black. The beret flash is obviously in color as there is no subdued version. Steve Johnson Patch Johnson I've got a flash that looks like the standard Army flash except that is red instead of blue. I believe it is Georgia's SDF Flash. The Alabama SDF wears red/white nametags on their greens...not sure what they have on their BDUs/ACUs??? Laury Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steverino Posted November 4, 2007 Share #13 Posted November 4, 2007 I've got a flash that looks like the standard Army flash except that is red instead of blue. I believe it is Georgia's SDF Flash. The Alabama SDF wears red/white nametags on their greens...not sure what they have on their BDUs/ACUs??? Laury Laury, The red beret flash with the white stars is sort of a "generic" state guard/state defense force beret flash. You are correct in that it is worn by the GA DF. However, the same beret flash is also worn by TN, IN and possibly others in the future. As for the name tags, those are pretty much all red/white across the board, although I haven't kept up with much that isn't cloth. Can you send me a PM? We can discuss this topic in more detail. Steve Johnson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laury Allison Posted November 4, 2007 Share #14 Posted November 4, 2007 Laury, The red beret flash with the white stars is sort of a "generic" state guard/state defense force beret flash. You are correct in that it is worn by the GA DF. However, the same beret flash is also worn by TN, IN and possibly others in the future. As for the name tags, those are pretty much all red/white across the board, although I haven't kept up with much that isn't cloth. Can you send me a PM? We can discuss this topic in more detail. Steve Johnson Steve, I've got a few State Guard/State Defense Force (or whatever they call themselves) pieces, but nothing too complete. I do have a lot of National Guard items though. I was in the Alabama Army & Air National Guard for a little over 12 years following 10 1/2 years of active duty, so I guess I got that area of collecting in my blood there. In all of those years of NG service, I had little to no exposure to the State Defense Forces....I was a traditional guardsman, a civilian technician and activated full-time guardsman in both the Army and Air National Guard. I did have a civilian boss once who was a member of the Alabama State Defense Force. I remember putting his ribbons together...I think I may have even picked them up at Clothing Sales for him, and putting his collar brass and stuff on his greens for him for some function they had once. He had been a guardsman and was activated and served in Korea in 1951 with the same company that my Uncle was in. When I joined the Army NG in 1993, it was this same battalion...the 151st Engineer Battalion (Combat) (Corps). The battalion was reorganized during my first drill weekend and became the 1343rd Engineer Battalion (Mechanized). I believe they are both Chemical units now. It is interesting stuff and sometimes hard to find much information about this area. I know there are ribbons (and medals?) for state defense forces too...several of them are standardized among several states...much like some of the National Guard medals and ribbons. A lot of this stuff gets produced locally and can be very difficult to find information about. Laury Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steverino Posted November 5, 2007 Share #15 Posted November 5, 2007 Steve, I've got a few State Guard/State Defense Force (or whatever they call themselves) pieces, but nothing too complete. I do have a lot of National Guard items though. I was in the Alabama Army & Air National Guard for a little over 12 years following 10 1/2 years of active duty, so I guess I got that area of collecting in my blood there. In all of those years of NG service, I had little to no exposure to the State Defense Forces....I was a traditional guardsman, a civilian technician and activated full-time guardsman in both the Army and Air National Guard. I did have a civilian boss once who was a member of the Alabama State Defense Force. I remember putting his ribbons together...I think I may have even picked them up at Clothing Sales for him, and putting his collar brass and stuff on his greens for him for some function they had once. He had been a guardsman and was activated and served in Korea in 1951 with the same company that my Uncle was in. When I joined the Army NG in 1993, it was this same battalion...the 151st Engineer Battalion (Combat) (Corps). The battalion was reorganized during my first drill weekend and became the 1343rd Engineer Battalion (Mechanized). I believe they are both Chemical units now. It is interesting stuff and sometimes hard to find much information about this area. I know there are ribbons (and medals?) for state defense forces too...several of them are standardized among several states...much like some of the National Guard medals and ribbons. A lot of this stuff gets produced locally and can be very difficult to find information about. Laury Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steverino Posted November 5, 2007 Share #16 Posted November 5, 2007 Laury, Thanks for your latest round of info. The most unfortunate (and frustrating) part of collecting state guard/state defense force insignia, whether patches, DUIs, ribbons or medals is that there is no central authority for authorizing insignia, nor keeping records of what is worn. At the same time, however, that aspect is one of the best parts for me because I try to contact every state that has such units on a periodic basis to keep up for myself. It is a constant challenge. If you are ever interested in acquiring some of the current SG/SDF unit insignia, let me know. I have some decent stuff available. Steve Johnson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart GI Posted November 13, 2007 Share #17 Posted November 13, 2007 IIRC the FL State Guard and PA Mil Res are not officially sanctioned state militias, as are the the NY Guard, Texas State Guard and AL State Defense Force. They claim similar missions/functions but operate under their own recognizance. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steverino Posted November 13, 2007 Share #18 Posted November 13, 2007 IIRC the FL State Guard and PA Mil Res are not officially sanctioned state militias, as are the the NY Guard, Texas State Guard and AL State Defense Force. They claim similar missions/functions but operate under their own recognizance. Mike Mike, Very true regarding the FL GD and the PA GD. There are another handful of "state guards" that operate under less than 100% state sanction/authorization. I'm not speaking of the so-called "militia" units like the Michigan Wolverines. Sometimes thse units are tax exempt service organizations (IRS 502 © 3), that are legit, but are not pure SG/SDF units. Some of them have their own SSIs or beret flashes. I consider these to be collectible insignia, despite their sometimes obscure status. Steve Johnson Patch Johnson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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