Capt Rickenbacker's ribbons

[USMCRECON]

During the same visit to the Udvar-Hazy Air and Space center on which I took the picture of Doolittle's ribbons, I also took a picture of the ribbons on Eddie Rickenbacker's uniform that is on display. As I understand it, this is an original. As with the Doolittle picture, I had to take them through the glass case and this is the best one.

 

[4STARCHRIS]

 

Here are the ribbons and full size medals that equate to the uniform you took a picture of.

4starchris

[GIl Sanow]

Very interesting. It appears he used French CdeG palms instead of oakleaf clusters on his DSC. And he wore two DSCs to accomodatre all. I guess that would be what they call a "field expediency"!

 

G

[USMCRECON]

Very interesting. It appears he used French CdeG palms instead of oakleaf clusters on his DSC. And he wore two DSCs to accomodatre all. I guess that would be what they call a "field expediency"!

 

G

 

Actually, the wear of a second ribbon to avccomodate devices is still authorized. As I recall a maximum of 4 devices are authorized on a ribbon. Many Vietnam-era fighter pilots ended up with two or more Air Medal ribbons to accomodate subsequent award devices.

 

You have good eyes, Gil. I noticed the CdG palms as well when I was liiking at the original uniform but forgot to mention it in my original post. It is much clearer when looking at it than it is in the photo but they are exactly the same as the ones on his CdG. Perhaps they were more readily available than the US Oak leaf and I suspect there was less control over uniform regs then.......and, of course, who is going to mess with a 9-DSC holder anyway!

[Bank Vault]

Not to sound dumb but why is MacArthur wearing Marine marksmanship badges?

[pconrad02]

Interesting that the star on Rickenbacker's Pilot wing is upside-down! But when you're an Ace.......

[4STARCHRIS]

 

The "King" of Duplicate ribbons, General of the Army Douglas MacArthur.

Distinguished Service Cross

Distinguished Service Cross

Army Distinguished Service Medal

Army Distinguished Service Medal

Silver Star Medal X 6

That's right. Six Silver Star Medals ribbon.

 

Does anyone know of anyone else who caan take this honor?

 

4starchris

[cwnorma]

Not to sound dumb but why is MacArthur wearing Marine marksmanship badges?

BV,

 

This has been covered on the forum before, but here goes again. In short, around 1910, the Army adopted a new system of marksmanship badges. The new system had three "grades;" Expert, Sharpshooter, and Marksman for both rifle and pistol. These badges were issued in two finishes; Silver for Regular Army troops, and Bronze for National Guard. Around 1915, the USMC adopted the Army's system of marksmanship badges. In the 1920s, the Army changed it's system of marksmanship badges, to the design seen today, but the USMC retained the previously Army badges.

 

MacArthur is wearing Army badges he earned before the regulations changed. Apparently he (like many aviators did) elected to wear the old style badge even when it was no longer "regulation"

 

Chris

[shrapneldude]

 

Here are the ribbons and full size medals that equate to the uniform you took a picture of.

4starchris

 

These are on display at the US Air Force Museum, at Wright Patterson AFB in Ohio, right? If not, there's more than one set out there, and one may be a fake! I just saw them today!

[4STARCHRIS]

These are on display at the US Air Force Museum, at Wright Patterson AFB in Ohio, right? If not, there's more than one set out there, and one may be a fake! I just saw them today!

 

Sharpneldude,

You are correct. They are on display in Ohio. Was that your first time to Air Force Museum?

4starchris

[shrapneldude]

Sharpneldude,

You are correct. They are on display in Ohio. Was that your first time to Air Force Museum?

4starchris

 

Yes, I went on TAD orders to WPAFB to attend a class and went to the museum in my free time, so today was my third time there, first time in that section of the museum (I'd been seeing it in 45-minute blocks at lunch time).

 

I was surprised at the condition some of the uniforms and medals were in, but my guess is they were in bad shape at the time they were donated. I did see, for the first time in person, a cased medal of Honor, like the one I asked to see from you, as well as the neck ribbon and case for a WWI MOH. The aircraft was amazing, though I didn't make it to the Presidential / Experimental hangar one of the USAF guys told me to check out, but I plan to see that next time I'm down there. What a great museum!

 

*What was the blue and gold Aviation medal beside these in the Rickenbacker display? Was this an official US award or something from a flying organization?

 

**Was that HIS Medal of Honor, or just a museum display piece? I'd say about half of the items in the Rickenbacker display at the Air Force museum looked to be replicas / display pieces.

[4STARCHRIS]

Yes, I went on TAD orders to WPAFB to attend a class and went to the museum in my free time, so today was my third time there, first time in that section of the museum (I'd been seeing it in 45-minute blocks at lunch time).

 

I was surprised at the condition some of the uniforms and medals were in, but my guess is they were in bad shape at the time they were donated. I did see, for the first time in person, a cased medal of Honor, like the one I asked to see from you, as well as the neck ribbon and case for a WWI MOH. The aircraft was amazing, though I didn't make it to the Presidential / Experimental hangar one of the USAF guys told me to check out, but I plan to see that next time I'm down there. What a great museum!

 

*What was the blue and gold Aviation medal beside these in the Rickenbacker display? Was this an official US award or something from a flying organization?

 

**Was that HIS Medal of Honor, or just a museum display piece? I'd say about half of the items in the Rickenbacker display at the Air Force museum looked to be replicas / display pieces.

 

Dan,

I do not kow for sure if that is his. However, I will try and find out. They had a huge medal scandel at the museum so I am not sure of what is real and what is not.

 

Did you like the MOH case I posted for you? They was some good and rare stuff I posted that night. The medal with is thing is an ultra rare medal. I am not sure exactly how many. Maybe 10-15? were made. I have been trying to track down exactly how many.

4starcris

[4STARCHRIS]

 

The medal you saw in the same case is the ultra ultra-rare MacKay Trophy Medal. It was given to the recipient of the MacKay Trophy ffot that particular year. You can google search MacKay Trophy and see the list of recipients.

[shrapneldude]

 

The medal you saw in the same case is the ultra ultra-rare MacKay Trophy Medal. It was given to the recipient of the MacKay Trophy ffot that particular year. You can google search MacKay Trophy and see the list of recipients.

 

That's the one! I got a picture of it on my cell phone to look it up later. Very neat medal! Thanks again!

-Dan

[4STARCHRIS]

That's the one! I got a picture of it on my cell phone to look it up later. Very neat medal! Thanks again!

-Dan

 

Dan,

Thanks for the reply. Outside of the Air Force Museum and my pics from "the vault" I do not think you will find anything about this medal. If you want more information let me know. Maybe I start a thread about this ultra rare medal.

4starchris

[barker944]

Dan,

Thanks for the reply. Outside of the Air Force Museum and my pics from "the vault" I do not think you will find anything about this medal. If you want more information let me know. Maybe I start a thread about this ultra rare medal.

4starchris

 

The Air Force Academy has both of GAF Arnold's MacKay Trophy medals. Unfortunately, the last time I saw them they were stored in a box in the basement of Arnold Hall and the ribbons were deteriorating.

 

Jim

[Bluehawk]

Slightly off topic, but has anyone noticed General Petraeus's rack lately? By the time he folds the tent, he might just have as many as MacArthur.

[11-Bull]

Funny you should mention Gen. Petraeus's ribbon rack. I have a picture of him that was in the newspaper the other day by my computer to remind me to post a comment. I remember when officers achieving the rank of general only wore ribbons for the decorations they were awarded, and that was before the proliferation of ribbons for everything! Plus retroactive award ribbons after they are adopted. Did they go through basic training again to qualify for it, or was it, oh you did it 35 years ago, you can add it to your rack? Not to belittle any service member, like I was told when I was in, "if you got 'em smoke 'em", so, "if you got 'em wear 'em" (with pride). But at what point do you start to look like a caricature?

[IMPERIAL QUEST]

Bill,

 

Thanks for posting the photo of Rickenbacker's uniform. I would love to see it in person one day.

[seanmc1114]

Some folks belittle the abundance of awards and service medals and ribbons that can be earned by today's military and to an extent I agree. However, for someone who recognizes the ribbons, you can almost read a particular person's rack as their resume, showing where they have been during their career. However, it is always funny to me to see a general or admiral with 7 or 8 rows of ribbons but without a single combat decoration.

 

The awarding of decorations by the U.S. military has gone through several ups and downs. World War I was probably when the process really came into its own. The fact that the Army basically only had three decorations, the Medal Of Honor, Distinguished Service Cross and Distinguished Service Medal, probably led to their being awarded for lesser acts than might have earned them in World War II and later when the Silver Star, Bronze Star, Army Commendation, DFC, Air Medal and Legion Of Merit were available to recognize lesser acts of valor and merit. For instance, Homeofheroes.com shows the Army awarded 5,429 DSC's during WWI but only 3,984 in WWII, even thought the latter war was much longer, involved more sustained fighting and many times more troops than the former.

 

I have always admired Eisenhower for the fact that he seemed to shun all of the awards so many other generals received. For all his service during his long career, I believe his only U.S. decorations were the Army DSM (multiple awards), the Navy DSM and the Legion Of Merit. I always wondered what Patton and MacArthur did to earn their Bronze Stars since that medal wasn't created until 1944 when they were both 4 star generals. It seems like they just received them because they didn't have one yet.

[trenchbuff]

Thought I'd add this shot of an original studio portrait of Capt. Eddie taken in 1919 for his book "Fighting the Flying Circus". It shows the ribbon configuration and his wing, but before he added the star. Not the best shot, but gives you an idea.

[TBMflyer]

Also, what did MacArthur do to rate a Distinguished Flying Cross?

 

I believe that General Kenny or General Whitehead wrote him up for his "heroism" watching the Nadzab para drop. Of course he was in a B-17, at 5,000 feet and there was NO Japanese air opposition-Outstanding! I had a friend who was a lead navigator in the 345th BG on the first mission to Clark Field on Jan.7 of 1945. He was recommended for a DFC but never got one, of course he only flew 44 low level missions so he probably didn't deserve it.

 

Mark.

[el taco grande]

i don't know, gentlemen, i may very well be in the minority on this, but i happen to think really huuuuge ribbon racks look really cool. i think some of the soviet-era generals looked ridiculous with their ribbon racks going all the way to their stomachs, but i'm of the opinion if you can squeeze them in over your breast pocket, then more power to you.

 

i do, however, think the multiple ribbon wearing like in the black and white macarthur picture (and it looks like he's wearing 7 silver star ribbons) is excessive. i also think the plethora of foreign awards awarded (can you say awards awarded?) to general macarthur is what makes the ribbon rack look a bit excessive, although i must admit i do think ribbons with rosettes attached to them also look really cool.

 

being medically unable to serve in the marine corps, i will never know what it's like to be able to put on a uniform with the decorations (if any) i would have been awarded, but to summarize what steven segal's character was told by his captain in under siege, if i had his (or any) ribbons, i'd wear them to bed. however, i don't really think it's cool to wear ribbons that were earned in a questionable manner. if you earned them in a legit way, i say wear them...

 

although general macarthur's uniform looks a bit "lord mountbatten-ish" in that picture, i say the more, the merrier!

[doyler]

Actually, the wear of a second ribbon to avccomodate devices is still authorized. As I recall a maximum of 4 devices are authorized on a ribbon. Many Vietnam-era fighter pilots ended up with two or more Air Medal ribbons to accomodate subsequent award devices.

 

You have good eyes, Gil. I noticed the CdG palms as well when I was liiking at the original uniform but forgot to mention it in my original post. It is much clearer when looking at it than it is in the photo but they are exactly the same as the ones on his CdG. Perhaps they were more readily available than the US Oak leaf and I suspect there was less control over uniform regs then.......and, of course, who is going to mess with a 9-DSC holder anyway!

 

Bill,

One thought on the CdG palms used in lieu of the oak leaf clusters.I wonder if the uniform of Rickenbackers is a tailor made french uniform.The ribbons look real similiar to the type I have on Hanford MacNiders uniform and its tailor made in france. Note the palm on his DSC.Also he has the stars on his victory ribbon for Silver Star Citations later to be medals.

 

RD

 

[Darrell]

What is the medal circled? It appears to be the Navy Distinguished Service Medal? There is not a medal on his minature in the position between the Army DSM and the Silver Star