A Silver Star, A Bright Career.....CMR. Roy Wommack McCotter

[Jack's Son]

The story goes like this; There was an estate sale in San Diego, I missed it. Soon after the sale items started showing up on eBay. The day of the big auction is at hand and there is plenty of interest. Even before the auction gets going on the first day, items are being pulled and sold off. By the time the auction ends, there is barely anything worth having left.

The estate was that of CMR. Roy Wommack McCotter U.S. Navy (Ret.), following is a brief biography from his "find a grave" site.

 

Birth: Sep. 10, 1916

Pasco

Franklin County

Washington, USA

Death: Jan. 22, 1989

San Diego

San Diego County

California, USA

 

Commander McCotter first joined the United States Navy in November of 1934 and served faithfully until September of 1943. In October of 1943 he was promoted to the Officer ranks (Mustang) and served until his retirement in January of 1957. He saw sea duty on the USS Widgeon, USS S-23, USS Tennessee (damaged in the Pearl Harbor attack), USS Chaumont, and the USS S-37. He was captured in Manlia, PI, during the surrender of Fort Drum in 1942 and was sent to Stalag 11B in Fallingbostel, Prussia (work camp 53-09), by the Japanese Government, and was later repatriated and liberated to U.S. Military Control. He was awarded the Silver Star, the Purple Heart, the Bronze Star medal, the Navy Good Conduct medal, the Prisoner of War medal, the World War II Victory medal, the China Service medal, the American Defense Service medal, the American Theater Campaign medal, the Asiatic-Pacific Campaign medal, the Korean Service medal, the National Defense Service medal, the United Nations Service medal, Army Distinguished Unit Citation, Philippine Defense Ribbon, and the Republic of Korea Presidential Unit Citation.

 

 

The sad part of this story is that the seller would NOT sell the grouping together, no matter what! It was all about money, and he said so. The estate consisted of a life long love affair with the Submarine Service. There was so much there.........All I got was his Silver Star. AND that is sadder still (See the pictures).

[Jack's Son]

...

[Jack's Son]

....

[Jack's Son]

The Back of the Ribbon had Been CUT.........THERE IS NO APPARENT REASON!!

 

:salute:

 

 

What hurts so much, is that the Star in not numbered or named. I know its history, but in the future, it will be just a damaged Silver Star that is worth less then its case.

[Dave]

Getting captured in the PI and then sent to Prussia must have been one heck of a trip as a POW!!! I wonder how many people did that???

 

Dave

[KASTAUFFER]

Its too bad they split the group all up. What a tragedy.

 

Here is one of his diaries: ( where in the heck did it go? To the untrained eye it would look like garbage and I bet it got thrown out)

 

http://philippine-defenders.lib.wv.us/html/quan.html

 

 

He was never in a German Stalag. He was held as a POW in the Philippines and in Japan. He ended the war in the Mitsushima POW camp in Japan.

 

http://www.mansell.com/pow_resources/campl...yank_roster.htm

 

Kurt

[doyler]

JS

 

Great star.More often than not things get split to the four winds in the name of the dollar.

[Jack's Son]

This is one other item I was able to get as well, although it is not military.

 

This is a Bullion Patch from the San Diego Police Dept. Fingerprint Division. Commander McCotter did volunteer work there....... this patch was for the Dept."Club" that he belonged too.

 

 

[MWalsh]

The Back of the Ribbon had Been CUT.........THERE IS NO APPARENT REASON!!

 

:salute:

 

Robin, it very well could be he carefully trimmed it himself or had it done so that the medal, when worn in a bar mount type fashion (but pinned on individually) was the same level or height as his campaign medals. That'd be my guess, that it was something like that.

 

Sorry, but I have to comment about eBay sellers "breaking up" groups. This will be my bi-monthly soapbox stand. I'm not sure where we as collectors get the notion that eBay is there for "preserving history"... Its simply a forum for people to buy and sell; sellers to make money and buyers to buy things they want. Who ever said it was NOT a place to make money? It's not charity, many people make a living off of it, they have bills to pay too. In addition, as a seller I well know the strange variety of emails one gets about items for sale... out and out lies as to authenticity, the "experts" making all sorts of assertions about what you are selling, the "your item is only worth this amount of $$$" when it is worth three times that, etc. Who is to say sellers think "keeping the group together" is not just another ploy to screw them out of money? And honestly, many collectors simply do not want groups anyway. I do not collect uniforms per se, were I to collect groups which were "complete" with uniforms, hats, medals, etc, I would not have room to live. Furthermore, when I DO end up with "groups" like that, all but the medals go in tubs anyway, never to be seen again unless I sell the group, while the medals are generally very nicely displayed. Is it not better to let a uniform collector take proper care of a uniform and a medal collector the medals, then to have half a "group" relegated to a box in a storeroom?

 

There is a very easy, very simple solution to keeping groups together - pony up the cash. Period. Personally, I have, more times than I ever care to admit, paid stupid money to keep sets together, I suspect most of us have, but sometimes that it was it takes to truly keep a group together. Nothing more. Yes, it IS about the money? Why should I as a seller NOT be able to maximize my money? Its easy to sit and home and click bids and forget the expenses that can go into buying things to resell. For all we know, this group could have it's profits going to support sick or ill surviving family members that are selling it all. Maybe, maybe not. Again, eBay is for making money!

 

In addition, we all lament groups being "broken" - but honestly, how many of us have ever taken the time to educate our family or friends as to what all we have in our collections, so that if the unthinkable were to happen all the multiple items from one person we all have, but which are half stored and half displayed, do not get split up? How often do some of us split groups because our collections are so large we do not remember what we have? Because we do not properly mark items, record them, etc? Is that not as bad or worse than what some people think is so horrible in ebay sellers doing? Food for thought.

 

Do I prefer to see groups intact? Absolutely. But I also know there are many, many reasons to not do so. And I do not begrudge anyone who chooses to sell things one by one. Again, it 'aint charity, it is theirs to do with as they see fit.

 

Nice buy by the way!

 

MW

[arclight]

That is indeed a sad thing that want for money has caused, but what an incredible addition for you. I hope one day to have one of these, even an unattributed one.

Congrats,

G

[dhcoleterracina]

Robin, were the other medals cut this way? I wonder if they all were cut to frame [easier without brooches]then re-sewn for sale. In either case you got the number one medal in the tough red box [did you look under the pad for a number?] I believe the first 10,000 were in numbered boxes.

[Jack's Son]

Dexter,

I don't know if the other medal ribbons were cut. The front was shown, and who thought to ask about the back. When I questioned the seller, he said it was cut when he got it.

The case is numbered, and I have give Tom Nier the number for his records. If you would like to see the number, I'll be happy to post a picture.

[memphismeister]

Robin, it very well could be he carefully trimmed it himself or had it done so that the medal, when worn in a bar mount type fashion (but pinned on individually) was the same level or height as his campaign medals. That'd be my guess, that it was something like that.

 

Sorry, but I have to comment about eBay sellers "breaking up" groups. This will be my bi-monthly soapbox stand. I'm not sure where we as collectors get the notion that eBay is there for "preserving history"... Its simply a forum for people to buy and sell; sellers to make money and buyers to buy things they want. Who ever said it was NOT a place to make money? It's not charity, many people make a living off of it, they have bills to pay too. In addition, as a seller I well know the strange variety of emails one gets about items for sale... out and out lies as to authenticity, the "experts" making all sorts of assertions about what you are selling, the "your item is only worth this amount of $$$" when it is worth three times that, etc. Who is to say sellers think "keeping the group together" is not just another ploy to screw them out of money? And honestly, many collectors simply do not want groups anyway. I do not collect uniforms per se, were I to collect groups which were "complete" with uniforms, hats, medals, etc, I would not have room to live. Furthermore, when I DO end up with "groups" like that, all but the medals go in tubs anyway, never to be seen again unless I sell the group, while the medals are generally very nicely displayed. Is it not better to let a uniform collector take proper care of a uniform and a medal collector the medals, then to have half a "group" relegated to a box in a storeroom?

 

There is a very easy, very simple solution to keeping groups together - pony up the cash. Period. Personally, I have, more times than I ever care to admit, paid stupid money to keep sets together, I suspect most of us have, but sometimes that it was it takes to truly keep a group together. Nothing more. Yes, it IS about the money? Why should I as a seller NOT be able to maximize my money? Its easy to sit and home and click bids and forget the expenses that can go into buying things to resell. For all we know, this group could have it's profits going to support sick or ill surviving family members that are selling it all. Maybe, maybe not. Again, eBay is for making money!

 

In addition, we all lament groups being "broken" - but honestly, how many of us have ever taken the time to educate our family or friends as to what all we have in our collections, so that if the unthinkable were to happen all the multiple items from one person we all have, but which are half stored and half displayed, do not get split up? How often do some of us split groups because our collections are so large we do not remember what we have? Because we do not properly mark items, record them, etc? Is that not as bad or worse than what some people think is so horrible in ebay sellers doing? Food for thought.

 

Do I prefer to see groups intact? Absolutely. But I also know there are many, many reasons to not do so. And I do not begrudge anyone who chooses to sell things one by one. Again, it 'aint charity, it is theirs to do with as they see fit.

 

Nice buy by the way!

 

MW

 

Hince why I decided that when I pass away only a few items that I have will remain. Every thing else that I have of my dad,s person collection will be creamated with me. I do not want his grouping to be scattered to the winds because some one can make a dollar off of it.

[MWalsh]

That's the wonder of it - it's yours to do with as you choose!

[MWalsh]

George Wilhelmsen's book on WW2 Silver Star awards to the USN / USMC / USCG notes that this award was for actions at Fort Mills on Corregidor from March 22nd through May 5th, 1942. He was a Radio Man 1st Class at the time of the award. The book also notes his award was announced or listed in the August 1946 edition of the All Hands magazine.

 

I bet it'll be an interesting citation once you get it.

 

MW

[Spathologist]

There is a very easy, very simple solution to keeping groups together - pony up the cash. Period. Personally, I have, more times than I ever care to admit, paid stupid money to keep sets together, I suspect most of us have, but sometimes that it was it takes to truly keep a group together. Nothing more. Yes, it IS about the money? Why should I as a seller NOT be able to maximize my money? Its easy to sit and home and click bids and forget the expenses that can go into buying things to resell. For all we know, this group could have it's profits going to support sick or ill surviving family members that are selling it all. Maybe, maybe not. Again, eBay is for making money!

 

This.

 

Bottom line, the things we collect have monetary value. In order to keep a collection together, someone has to care enough to take a loss. Either the seller has to take less than he could get for individual items, or the buyer has to pay more than the individual items are worth.

 

It's a shame from a collector's perspective, and from the perspective that a group carefully preserved by someone to whom it obviously meant a great deal is now blown to the winds and "lost", but the bottom line is that it wasn't worth it to the seller to keep the group together, and it wasn't worth it to any collector, either.

[emccomas]

No matter how hard we try, we are not going to be able to keep all of the groups together. It is a simple economic issue. The parts are worth more than the group as a whoe.

 

I see the same thing with old Corvettes, which I also play with. I see plenty of restorable project cars being parted out because the seller can get a lot more money selling thje parts individually than the project car is worth. Happens a lot.

 

And it will continue to happen. We all have to remember that many people deal with militaria items FOR THE MONEY.

 

If we are fortunate, and have deep enough pockets, sometimes we can keep groups together. But that will not be the rule, it will be the exception.

 

I know this is a passionate issue, but for a lot of sellers, it is just a way to make a living. This is the reality of any collectable area.

[Robbo]

The Back of the Ribbon had Been CUT.........THERE IS NO APPARENT REASON!!

 

:salute:

What hurts so much, is that the Star in not numbered or named. I know its history, but in the future, it will be just a damaged Silver Star that is worth less then its case.

 

JS

Sad but true. HOWEVER, things have a habit of surfacing over time. It will be name that will always be in the back of your mind when you are on Ebay etc, and the occasional Google search of his name could yield results at some point.

[CNY Militaria]

At this point in ebay militaria, I am sure many sellers realize that if they split up groups they will make more than if together, both in appealing to different collectors' interests, as well as those who will spend more money than normal to put the group back together.

[Robbo]

Whilst it is regrettable that groupings get split up by dealers at times and probably get split up by family members just as often for the sake of a few extra $$$. We have to remember that nearly EVERYTHING in our collections was part of a grouping at some point.

[LuftStalg1]

No matter how hard we try, we are not going to be able to keep all of the groups together. It is a simple economic issue. The parts are worth more than the group as a whoe.

 

I see the same thing with old Corvettes, which I also play with. I see plenty of restorable project cars being parted out because the seller can get a lot more money selling thje parts individually than the project car is worth. Happens a lot.

 

And it will continue to happen. We all have to remember that many people deal with militaria items FOR THE MONEY.

 

If we are fortunate, and have deep enough pockets, sometimes we can keep groups together. But that will not be the rule, it will be the exception.

 

I know this is a passionate issue, but for a lot of sellers, it is just a way to make a living. This is the reality of any collectable area.

 

 

 

True, I have owned three corvett tri-powers at the same time as well as one set of L-88/ZL-1 alum. open chamber heads and other parts in my old BigBlock "Rat" collection years ago. It is sad but as a guy that can not spend that kind of money to get ALL the bits of history together, I am very happy to be able to own a small piece of that history! And if those I leave behind can have a better life by splitting it up then that is what I want them to do. As heart breaking as it may be. :crying:

 

As for the cut ribbon. Would somone cut it to get the original medal off and replace it with another medal? Maybe the original was a BB&B or was named and numbered? Even more horible to imagine!

[Sabrejet]

A sad story indeed JS. Though I'm not a "specialist" medal collector myself I do have a representative collection of mostly cased / boxed US medals..some named, others not. What intrigues me is how some medals become "worn" in appearance?! Most medals I have are in pretty much mint condition. That makes sense because once presented they are cherished items, kept mostly in their cases and perhaps proudly worn on veterans' days etc., before being put back in their cases. And yet...I see medals (such as your SS) which exhibit wear and tear! Why is this? Excessive handling which tarnishes the finish? I have my late grandfather's WW1 medals which are almost 100 years old now but, apart from some slight fading of the ribbons, are pretty much as they were issued...ie no wear and tear!

 

 

Ian :think:

[tarbridge]

JS, I am glad you were at least able to get his Silver Star.Just keep your eyes open the rest could come your way someday.Robert

[17thairborne]

JS,

 

You bring up some excellent points as do the others who chimed in. I recently had the opportunity to "pick up" the last vestiges from the Commander of the 139th AEB. Apparently the family had the remaining items from the husband/wife's estate stored in a POD. The Col died in 2000 and I suspect the wife a few years later. I believe, but cannot confirm that no one claimed the POD and it was sold by the storage company in an auction. Clothes, books, papers, uniforms, photos and everything went to the four winds. It was sold in WA. I saw part of the pieces on ebay after the fact when they had already been sold, and was lucky to see a final lot from the POD on ebay at a hefty opening bid with no one bidding on it. I'm sure there are those who will chastise me for doing so, but I did contact the seller and paid him way more than what it was worth, I mean WAY more. I did so for many of the reasons listed above. I could just see the individual pieces get split up and sold off thus making more money. I only collect one thing 139th AEB stuff and would have sh!# myself to see the last pieces of the BN Cos grouping get sent to the four winds.

 

The sad part is that there is a photo album from the family that goes back to the mid 1800s. There are old photos from 1980 and I think this needs to go back to the family. I am trying to find a member to return this to, but so far no luck. perhaps when the book I am working on is finished I will get someone to contact me and the family photo album will return where it belongs, to the family.

 

Now for the other sad part. I know many collectors are incensed when someone contacts a seller and gets a "buy it now option". Yes I am guilty, and no, the ends does not justify the means, but its done. Yes I am ashamed for having done so, but in time I will get over it. I hope everyone else does not see me as the "devil collector with no scruples". If so I will take my lumps with humility.

 

As far as values go I have always applied a valuation to the grouping that was more than the sum of the parts. I take the retail value of the individual items and if there is provenance associated (papers, letters, photos) I will add 25-50% on top of the sum as a factor of what I would be willing to pay for the grouping to preserve the integrity of it. In the end I am paying WAY more for for a grouping than what it would probably sell for together or separated, but I ensure it stays together. There are certain grouping such as E/506, FSSF, Ranger, that command higher prices when together, but the vast majority of groupings tend to sell for less when put together and that is sad.

 

Again, I sincerely beg forgiveness for my inequities in snaking the Stanley Johnson 139th AEB grouping before the bid ended.

 

Oz

[Jack's Son]

Mike,

Thanks for the further information regarding the awarding of the SS. I have contacted Jon "cobrahistorian" regarding this documentation.