ehrentitle Posted October 21, 2007 Share #1 Posted October 21, 2007 I bought today what I believe is a 502nd Inf Pocket Patch. It is shown on Plate 31 of Barry Jason Stein's new book U.S. Army Patches , Flashes and Ovals as one of the Combat Arms Regimental System pocket patches on woodland green proposed by the Army Uniform Board in 1981-82. Has anyone else run across these? And if so any idea of how much they might be worth? Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KurtA Posted October 21, 2007 Share #2 Posted October 21, 2007 These (i.e., lots of different units) were made in great quantity in the early 80's, so hence they don't bring too much today. Still nice collectable patches. Kurt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehrentitle Posted October 21, 2007 Author Share #3 Posted October 21, 2007 These (i.e., lots of different units) were made in great quantity in the early 80's, so hence they don't bring too much today. Still nice collectable patches.Kurt Kurt, Thanks. The Stein book shows patches for 34 units. Most are Inf but a few FA and one ADA. Until today I've never seen one before, but had not really been looking for them. Would be interested in hearing from other who have them in their collections. Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laury Allison Posted October 21, 2007 Share #4 Posted October 21, 2007 Kurt, Thanks. The Stein book shows patches for 34 units. Most are Inf but a few FA and one ADA. Until today I've never seen one before, but had not really been looking for them. Would be interested in hearing from other who have them in their collections. Kevin I've got a whole bunch of different ones in my collection. I picked them up probably in the early-1980s. From what I remember, they were intended to be worn as pocket patches on the then newly introduced BDUs. The initial batch of them were made and then it was decided that no pocket patches (and a lot of other stuff) would not be worn on the BDUs....that's when the foreign jump wings and stuff like the Jungle Expert patch went away. I don't remember exactly how many different ones of these I have, but 34 sounds about right. There were some Infantry, ADA, FA, and a few Armor and Cavalry units. As far as I know, these were never actually worn. They haven't really ever taken off in the collector world because I feel not that many people knew about them and nobody had put them in their book. If Stein has included them in his new book, their collectability may take off. I've always thought they were a good "sleeper" item and years from now collectors will be scrambling to get a complete set of what was produced. I see them occasionally on Ebay without a lot of bites on them. I would say if you can find them at a reasonable price grab them up while you can. Laury Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehrentitle Posted October 21, 2007 Author Share #5 Posted October 21, 2007 Laury - Thanks for the background. The Stein book says the main reason they were not issued was a report from Natick Labs which determined that the pocket would have to removed in order to sew the insignia on at a cost of $4 per uniform. But somehow that was not an issue with the recruiters or drill sergeant's badge which also are sewn on the pocket. So I suspect there were other reasons. As I recall this was also about the time that the Army was coming out with the regimental affiliation program and the non-combat arms were also asking for and receiving insignia for regimental affiliation. So maybe the program became too troublesome to continue. Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwb123 Posted October 21, 2007 Share #6 Posted October 21, 2007 My recollection is that a well known patch dealer came out with these for private purchase. I may be wrong, but I don't think they were ever ordered or sanctioned by the US Army. At the time that the US Army adapted the BDU, units had fallen away from wearing unit pocket patches. I can say that in serving in Europe between 1980 and 1983 I do not recall seeing any unit pocket patches. I think this is a prime example of a commercial vendor coming out with a product in hopes of creating demand. It would be interesting if any member of the forum could produce a uniform that actually has one of these on it. To my eye, the OD thread used in the background is not even the correct shade, which is one more sign of their commercial nature. As for Stein including them in his book.... I am not sure that this should be taken as confirmation that these were "official" or historic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehrentitle Posted October 21, 2007 Author Share #7 Posted October 21, 2007 This is what page 180 of Stein's book says about these patches: "As a source of morale and esprit de corps pocket patches have always been highly regarded by unit commanders and the military community in general. Over the years, these locally approved or unauthorized patches have appeared from time to time. But between 1981 and 1982 there was a concentrated effort by the Department of the Army's Uniform Board to authorize pocket patches for most combat units. The wearing on fatigues of metal and enamel "crests" was rejected (bright colors, small size) in favor of cloth, and so, cartoons of the insignia were created by TIOH from the designs of distinctive unit insignia and development contracts were awarded to embroidery manufactures. However, the full scope of the program became apparent only when Natick, the clothing research laboratory, determined that the pocket of the fatigue shirt would need to be removed in order to sew the insignia on, at a cost of $4.00 per uniform. This would have been too costly and the program was dropped. Several designs from this failed experiment are listed below." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehrentitle Posted October 22, 2007 Author Share #8 Posted October 22, 2007 And here is an interesting article on Wikipedia that describes the U.S. Army Regimental System that spawned this pocket insignia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Army_Regimental_System Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P-E Posted December 5, 2015 Share #9 Posted December 5, 2015 These (i.e., lots of different units) were made in great quantity in the early 80's, so hence they don't bring too much today. Still nice collectable patches. Kurt I don't know precisely how many exist, but I've 61 different regimental BDU pocket patch. All are infantry, Cavalry, Armored, field Artillery, air Defense artillery regiments. It probably miss me a few of these. I'll try to scan them one by one in the following days... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patchcollector Posted December 5, 2015 Share #10 Posted December 5, 2015 I don't know precisely how many exist, but I've 61 different regimental BDU pocket patch. All are infantry, Cavalry, Armored, field Artillery, air Defense artillery regiments. It probably miss me a few of these. I'll try to scan them one by one in the following days... Wow 61!I have a few of these and would enjoy seeing yours! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P-E Posted December 5, 2015 Share #11 Posted December 5, 2015 Here're the first ones : Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P-E Posted December 5, 2015 Share #12 Posted December 5, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P-E Posted December 5, 2015 Share #13 Posted December 5, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P-E Posted December 5, 2015 Share #14 Posted December 5, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P-E Posted December 5, 2015 Share #15 Posted December 5, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P-E Posted December 5, 2015 Share #16 Posted December 5, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P-E Posted December 5, 2015 Share #17 Posted December 5, 2015 Here're the ones I have. If I remember correctly, there're 61 different badges. If you have any other, please post them ! By the way, if you have any double I don't have, please contact me, I'ld be interested in getting them to complete my collection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atb Posted December 5, 2015 Share #18 Posted December 5, 2015 In the very early 1980's I was stationed at Cameron Station, VA, then home of the US Army Institute of Heraldry (IOH). They had a large format Ozalid machine for making prints from inked drawings on tracing vellum. I was a frequent visitor to IOH to use that machine. One morning, one of the IOH staff asked if he could measure a chest pocket on the then new BDU uniform I was wearing. The reason was to determine the size for those pocket insignia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P-E Posted December 5, 2015 Share #19 Posted December 5, 2015 Thank you for the anecdote ! Kind of story I like and probably great memories for you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proud Kraut Posted December 5, 2015 Share #20 Posted December 5, 2015 WOW, great collection. I did not check every single patch but most of these seem to be from units that served over here in Germany. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patchcollector Posted December 5, 2015 Share #21 Posted December 5, 2015 Excellent,focused collection.You already have the few that I have,but that's no surprise as your collection is big!Thanks for sharing them here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proud Kraut Posted December 6, 2015 Share #22 Posted December 6, 2015 Finally I found at least the picture again. I've once had this one in my collection (hope it's not already posted): Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P-E Posted December 6, 2015 Share #23 Posted December 6, 2015 Not, i do not have this one ! Nice ! Do you know which regiment ? I have to find it now...haha. Guys,feel free to post your insignia, that could be a great reference for other patch collectors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P-E Posted December 6, 2015 Share #24 Posted December 6, 2015 Apparently it's the second infantry . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proud Kraut Posted December 6, 2015 Share #25 Posted December 6, 2015 Apparently it's the second infantry . Yes, 2nd Infantry Division. I edited the topic's title so it can be found again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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