Bluehawk Posted June 17, 2011 Share #1 Posted June 17, 2011 At Sotheby's THE ASSOCIATED PRESS A rare Second National Confederate Flag from the CSS Alabama will go to the auction block on Friday (17 Jun 2011): Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hhbooker2 Posted June 17, 2011 Share #2 Posted June 17, 2011 At Sotheby's THE ASSOCIATED PRESS A rare Second National Confederate Flag from the CSS Alabama will go to the auction block on Friday (17 Jun 2011): Too bad it will end up in a private collection instead of a naval museum! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
67Rally Posted June 17, 2011 Share #3 Posted June 17, 2011 Too bad it will end up in a private collection instead of a naval museum! That's the first thing I thought of when I read the title of this post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjones5452 Posted June 17, 2011 Share #4 Posted June 17, 2011 I'd like to see it down at Columbus Georgia in the National Civil War Naval Museum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluehawk Posted June 17, 2011 Author Share #5 Posted June 17, 2011 Something of possible interest is that a CSS Alabama flag was offered for sale on 9 Jun 2007: ----------------- Lot 2100 C.S.S. ALABAMA FLAG CONFEDERATE 2ND NATIONAL FLAG IS CONSTRUCTED IN THE PATTERN OF A CONFEDERATE 2ND NATIONAL PATTERN OUT OF RED, WHITE AND BLUE WOOL BUNTING WITH THIRTEEN 3" COTTON STARS APPLIED TO EACH SIDE OF THE CANTON. THE HOIST IS CONSTRUCTED OF 2" COTTON 2/1 TWILL FABRIC WITH A 1/4" ROPE SEWN INTO THE OUTSIDE EDGE. THE FIMBRATION IS CONSTRUCTED OF ONE LAYER OF WHITE WOOL BUNTING, INSERTED BETWEEN THE CROSS AND QUADRANTS. THE BLUE CROSS OVERLAPS IN THE CENTER. THE FLAG IS HANDSEWN THROUGHOUT. WRITTEN ON THE HOIST OF THE REVERSE SIDE WITH A BROWN PIGMENT IS THE FOLLOWING: "ALABAMA. 290. C.S.N. 1st CUTTER". SIZE: LEADING EDGE 25-1/2", FLY 41". CONDITION: FLAG IS INTACT EXCEPT FOR MINOR HOLES THAT APPEAR TO HAVE BEEN CAUSED BY INSECTS. THERE ARE SOME GREASY SPOTS ON THE FLAG AS WELL. JUST BENEATH THE FLY SEAM THERE IS A HORIZONTAL CREASE FROM PREVIOUS FOLDING. THE CREASE LINE IS SOILED WITH WHAT APPEARS TO BE AIR POLLUTANTS. THERE ARE TACK HOLES DOWN THE HOIST AND FLY END. THERE MAY BE ADDITIONAL TACK HOLES ACROSS THE TOP BUT THE BUNTING IS TOO COARSE TO REVEAL THEM. THERE ARE REPAIRS WITH GOLD SILK THREAD AT THE TOP OF THE HOIST AND ONE STRAND IN THE HOIST. THERE IS AN ADDITIONAL REPAIR WITH A FINE CABLED COTTON THREAD IN THE BOTTOM CORNER OF THE FLY END. THIS FLAG WAS CONSIGNED FROM THE GRANDSON OF THE PURCHASER. THIS FLAG ALONG WITH A FLAG FROM THE US SHIP KERSAGE WAS PURCHASED FROM THE GRAND DAUGHTER OF A SAILOR FROM THE KEARSARGE WHO HAD THESE TWO FLAGS IN HER POSSESION DIRECTLY FROM THE SAILOR. THE FLAG FROM THE KEARSARGE WAS DONATED TO A MUSEUM BY THE CONSIGNORS GRANDFATHER. THIS FLAG HAS BEEN EXAMINED BY TOP FLAG EXPERTS AND NEITHER A YEA OR NAY HAS BEEN GIVEN AS TO ITS AUTHENTICITY. THE RESULTS OF EXTENSIVE EXAMINATION HAS NOT BEEN CONCLUSIVE. IF AUTHENTIC AS THE PROVENANCE INDICATES, THIS WOULD BE A PRIZED POSSESION IN ANY CIVIL WAR COLLECTION, A TRUE HISTORIC MUSEUM PIECE. WE ARE PALCING A LOW ESTIMATE, IF FURTHER RESEARCH IS DONE AND THIS IS CATEGORICALLY PROVEN AUTHENTIC OUR ESTIMATE SHOULD BE DOUBLE, TRIPLED OR MORE. Philip Weiss Auctions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluehawk Posted June 17, 2011 Author Share #6 Posted June 17, 2011 The sale was supposed to begin at 1000 today, but no word yet as to what it sold for or to whom. I too hope it will end up in the proper museum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niner Alpha Posted June 17, 2011 Share #7 Posted June 17, 2011 I wonder if the City of Mobile knew about it? The Mobile museum has a special room in honor of Admiral Semmes and has artifacts from the CSS Alabama and personal objects that belonged to that Admiral who had made Mobile his home after the war. http://www.museumofmobile.com/perm_exhibits.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted June 17, 2011 Share #8 Posted June 17, 2011 Hammer price: $218,500... :w00t: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluehawk Posted June 18, 2011 Author Share #9 Posted June 18, 2011 Hammer price: $218,500... :w00t: Dang! Wonder who got it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted June 18, 2011 Share #10 Posted June 18, 2011 Dang! Wonder who got it... I was right up there, but got outbid at the last second...darn snipers... Just kidding. Probably either a wealthy museum, a deep-pocketed collector, or a foreign oil oligarch who thinks it will look good on the wall of his house in Kazakhstan... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sigsaye Posted June 19, 2011 Share #11 Posted June 19, 2011 The size and the marking "First Cutter" indicate that it was a Boat Enssign (for the First Cutter Boat obviousley). That's pretty cool. Most boat ensigns were made by the boats Coxwain at that time. many did not have the correct number of stars, simply just a "representation" of what the actual ensign looked like. I would think that since Alabama was built in England and had an almost all English crew (Semmes and some of the officers were Southern, the rest English) the boat ensign may have been made by Laird Ship Yard, One issue was thqat Laird was going out of it's way to not appear to be building ships for the Confederacy. they produced uniforms for the crew, but they were not in acordance with CSN regs so as not to appear as CSN. Neat artifact, wish it could have ended up in a museum. We'll see. Steve Hesson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluehawk Posted June 19, 2011 Author Share #12 Posted June 19, 2011 The size and the marking "First Cutter" indicate that it was a Boat Enssign (for the First Cutter Boat obviousley). That's pretty cool. Most boat ensigns were made by the boats Coxwain at that time. many did not have the correct number of stars, simply just a "representation" of what the actual ensign looked like. I would think that since Alabama was built in England and had an almost all English crew (Semmes and some of the officers were Southern, the rest English) the boat ensign may have been made by Laird Ship Yard, One issue was thqat Laird was going out of it's way to not appear to be building ships for the Confederacy. they produced uniforms for the crew, but they were not in acordance with CSN regs so as not to appear as CSN. Neat artifact, wish it could have ended up in a museum. We'll see. Steve Hesson Wonderful insights there Steve... thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sigsaye Posted June 19, 2011 Share #13 Posted June 19, 2011 Wonderful insights there Steve... thanks. You're welcome. Navys my thing, CW Navy a sub specialty. boat Ensigns are sort of odd ducks at this time. They were generally only used in forign ports or to indicate that an officer was embarked. I've seen US BEs of the CW period with only 11 stars, and CS BEs with no stars at all, just the "X". Boat Ensigns are smaller that those used by the ship, designed for use in small boats. I believe that Alabama was able to get one or two boats off as she sank. It would be interesting to know where it came from or where it has been. Steve Hesson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogfacedsoldier Posted July 2, 2011 Share #14 Posted July 2, 2011 I thought the larger flag from the Alabama was on display at the Tenn. State Museum. I know they have the flag from one of the raiders, it is massive, and something to see in person. Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluehawk Posted July 2, 2011 Author Share #15 Posted July 2, 2011 ... It would be interesting to know where it came from or where it has been. Steve Hesson Yes, it would! One would think the provenance for an artifact selling for that amount would be extremely precise chronologically. I bet the buyer has the sequence in writing somehow - would love to see it too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leatherneck72 Posted July 2, 2011 Share #16 Posted July 2, 2011 Just to play devil's advocate here.....not everything of historic importance belongs in a museum. Quite the contrary, most of this stuff survived because it was no where near a museum, but cared for in private hands. Most museums have more than they can ever display, and they actively de-accession, trade, and sell. The only reason the American museum even exists is because of the private collector that cared WAY before any museum ever did. There is a great book out there on the subject....I think it is called "In Praise of America's Collectors" or something to that effect. If everything went to a museum, this forum wouldn't be fun anymore! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluehawk Posted July 2, 2011 Author Share #17 Posted July 2, 2011 Just to play devil's advocate here.....not everything of historic importance belongs in a museum. Quite the contrary, most of this stuff survived because it was no where near a museum, but cared for in private hands. Most museums have more than they can ever display, and they actively de-accession, trade, and sell. The only reason the American museum even exists is because of the private collector that cared WAY before any museum ever did. There is a great book out there on the subject....I think it is called "In Praise of America's Collectors" or something to that effect. If everything went to a museum, this forum wouldn't be fun anymore! Interesting, from the standpoint of a retired museum curator. Not to worry though, if a trend which began in the late 1980s continues being as much of a juggernaught as it has been since, then museum collections as such will be fairly soon replaced by "interactive educational exhibits" designed and installed by PhD propagandists who regard artifacts as vestigial. That's where the money is and has been. The few remaining pure and traditional curators still in service have always (i.e. since the mid-18th century) believed that the general public would be interested in seeing what had previously been kept behind those private fortress walls, and that one useful role our institutions play(ed) was to help the society preserve important stuff simply by giving it shelter. But, "Progress" has progressed, so, not so much of a problem anymore. Luckily, for the most part, private collectors are present at those deaccessioning auctions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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