all-bull Posted June 15, 2011 Share #1 Posted June 15, 2011 Hello, I need some help with this patch. A while back I had found what I thought was the ID on this. If I remember correctly, it was a small detachment that was stationed in Korea and then went to Vietnam for a very short tour. It was either an Arty or Ord unit. It had some connection to the 30th Arty (hence the XXX on the missile). By looking at the red and yellow stripes, I believe this patch was for their short time in VN. And now, I can't find that information I had anywhere!! Is there anyone out there who might could help me? I never did find out what the Whalypindes meant. Perhaps it the commander? Thanks in advance for any help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atb Posted June 15, 2011 Share #2 Posted June 15, 2011 I hope the information does present itself. I was in the 30th Artillery Brigade on Okinawa (the 38th Artillery Brigade was the ADA unit in Korea) from 1970-1972. I don't recall anyone from our maintenence support unit, the 44th Ordnance Company, going to Vietnam, but it certainly could have been earlier when the 97th Artillery Group was in RVN. The 97th had Hawk missiles, but we had both Hawk and Nike-Hercules missiles on Okinawa and the 44th Ord. Co. supported both types. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atb Posted June 15, 2011 Share #3 Posted June 15, 2011 Try this- http://www.vietnamwarpatches.com/2011/02/2...2-63-rare-orig/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itshistory Posted June 15, 2011 Share #4 Posted June 15, 2011 Just looking at Veterans postings I found reference to C Battery, 1st Bn 30th Arty to have been nicknamed "Dirty Thirty" while deployed to Vietnam in 1968. The record of service shows that they were a 155mm Howitzer battery, nothing to do with missiles. There are official listings the 6/56th and 6/71st artillery under the 97th Artillery Group being deployed in 1968 to Vietnam. These were Hawk missile units. Earlier deployments of the Hawk were carried out in Vietnam by the Marines. This was the 1st LAAM in 1965. No record of Nike missiles could be found. My own take on the patch is that the missile in not a Hawk but a Nike series missile. The picture profile is very distinct. Little of what we are guessing at in the patch can be verified by the written records of the 30th Artillery. Only that one Battery was nicknamed "Dirty Thirty". And what Whalypindes means will probably never be known unless someone who is familiar with the unit it belongs to can be located. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itshistory Posted June 15, 2011 Share #5 Posted June 15, 2011 Try this- http://www.vietnamwarpatches.com/2011/02/2...2-63-rare-orig/ I personally believe that the description given is totally false. Comparing the patch illustrated in this thread with the one pictured in the linked post, they have strong indications of being of the same patch. IH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
all-bull Posted June 15, 2011 Author Share #6 Posted June 15, 2011 IH, They are indeed the same patch. That link is a copy paste of the ebay description. The patch that the description goes with is what I have posted below. I HIGHLY DOUBT that the Whalypindes patch is USAF especially with the Ord bomb and missile. I'm pretty sure it almost has to be an Arty unit like was stated earlier. I really hope we can pin this one down. It really is a neat patch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itshistory Posted June 16, 2011 Share #7 Posted June 16, 2011 As I look at the patch again the brown thingie looks like a birds head, the black being the beak and of course a white eye. Could that reference a Hawk? Maybe. And even if the missile portrayed is a badly shaped Hawk missile we are still left with the fact that no Vietnam based unit of the 30th was equipped with Hawk missiles. The fact that the flaming ball sure looks like an Ordnance Branch insignia puts all kinds of directions for this thing to go in. The red stripes, I don't think, are a guarantee of a link to Vietnam. The South Vietnamese Flag had 3 red stripes on it, not two. But then again if the missile pictured so much looking like a Nike missile was meant to be a Hawk missile then putting only 2 red stripes on the patch could be just the same kind of sloppy composition. Another thing that has occurred to me is that we may have to look at a different place. There is a 30th Artillery Brigade (as mentioned) that was missile Equipped. The 30th Artillery Regiment was Howitzer equipped, no missiles. IH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steverino Posted June 16, 2011 Share #8 Posted June 16, 2011 As I look at the patch again the brown thingie looks like a birds head, the black being the beak and of course a white eye. Could that reference a Hawk? Maybe. And even if the missile portrayed is a badly shaped Hawk missile we are still left with the fact that no Vietnam based unit of the 30th was equipped with Hawk missiles. The fact that the flaming ball sure looks like an Ordnance Branch insignia puts all kinds of directions for this thing to go in.The red stripes, I don't think, are a guarantee of a link to Vietnam. The South Vietnamese Flag had 3 red stripes on it, not two. But then again if the missile pictured so much looking like a Nike missile was meant to be a Hawk missile then putting only 2 red stripes on the patch could be just the same kind of sloppy composition. Another thing that has occurred to me is that we may have to look at a different place. There is a 30th Artillery Brigade (as mentioned) that was missile Equipped. The 30th Artillery Regiment was Howitzer equipped, no missiles. IH I have no clue about the patch shown on the original post. However, I am very well acquainted with the patch from the suggested link. The only thing in common between the two is the nickname "Dirty Thirty." The first is one branch of service while the second is USAF. Just read the write-up shown for the Ba Muoi Lam ("30" in Vietnamese). The USAF Dirty Thirty was there so early they wore MAAG Vietnam patch/tabs. That is a great story and patch unto themselves, but has zero connection to the Hawk (?) patch initially posted. Patch Johnson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misanthropic_Gods Posted June 16, 2011 Share #9 Posted June 16, 2011 This missile is quite clearly a Nike Hercules, not a badly shaped Hawk. This is the Hawk, note the lack of any fins on the front Nike Hercules: Note both the forward fin and the main fin which are clearly discernible on the patch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eriksale Posted September 5, 2011 Share #10 Posted September 5, 2011 IH, They are indeed the same patch. That link is a copy paste of the ebay description. The patch that the description goes with is what I have posted below. I HIGHLY DOUBT that the Whalypindes patch is USAF especially with the Ord bomb and missile. I'm pretty sure it almost has to be an Arty unit like was stated earlier. I really hope we can pin this one down. It really is a neat patch. Just saw this and thought I'd ad. My dad was in the original 30 of “The Original Dirty Thirty” in Vietnam 1962 – 1963, there was a second group of 30 from Apr 63 to Dec 63. The description of the first patch in this thread is wrong, the info all-bull posted is correct. Facts about this group: They were the first recognized combatants in Vietnam, they were not advisors but sent over to replace VN pilots so they could go to fly fighters in the VNAF. They were also only the second group of American’s commanded by a foreign nation. Commander was Nygen Ko Key (sp), the first were volunteers under Lafayette in the war of 1812 Attached is a scan of the “The Original Dirty Thirty” patch of which I have 3 of. Dave PS If interested I have lots more on this group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patchcollector Posted September 5, 2011 Share #11 Posted September 5, 2011 Just saw this and thought I'd ad. My dad was in the original 30 of “The Original Dirty Thirty” in Vietnam 1962 – 1963, there was a second group of 30 from Apr 63 to Dec 63.The description of the first patch in this thread is wrong, the info all-bull posted is correct. Facts about this group: They were the first recognized combatants in Vietnam, they were not advisors but sent over to replace VN pilots so they could go to fly fighters in the VNAF. They were also only the second group of American’s commanded by a foreign nation. Commander was Nygen Ko Key (sp), the first were volunteers under Lafayette in the war of 1812 Attached is a scan of the “The Original Dirty Thirty” patch of which I have 3 of. Dave PS If interested I have lots more on this group. Hi Dave, Here is my "Dirty Thirty" patch.Please post anything else that you have related to this group,or if possible,email me. I would LOVE to see anything related to this unit!Thanks,Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patchcollector Posted September 5, 2011 Share #12 Posted September 5, 2011 Just saw this and thought I'd ad. My dad was in the original 30 of “The Original Dirty Thirty” in Vietnam 1962 – 1963, there was a second group of 30 from Apr 63 to Dec 63.The description of the first patch in this thread is wrong, the info all-bull posted is correct. Facts about this group: They were the first recognized combatants in Vietnam, they were not advisors but sent over to replace VN pilots so they could go to fly fighters in the VNAF. They were also only the second group of American’s commanded by a foreign nation. Commander was Nygen Ko Key (sp), the first were volunteers under Lafayette in the war of 1812 Attached is a scan of the “The Original Dirty Thirty” patch of which I have 3 of. Dave PS If interested I have lots more on this group. Hi Dave, Here is my "Dirty Thirty" patch.Please post anything else that you have related to this group,or if possible,email me. I would LOVE to see anything related to this unit!Thanks,Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patchcollector Posted September 5, 2011 Share #13 Posted September 5, 2011 Just saw this and thought I'd ad. My dad was in the original 30 of “The Original Dirty Thirty” in Vietnam 1962 – 1963, there was a second group of 30 from Apr 63 to Dec 63.The description of the first patch in this thread is wrong, the info all-bull posted is correct. Facts about this group: They were the first recognized combatants in Vietnam, they were not advisors but sent over to replace VN pilots so they could go to fly fighters in the VNAF. They were also only the second group of American’s commanded by a foreign nation. Commander was Nygen Ko Key (sp), the first were volunteers under Lafayette in the war of 1812 Attached is a scan of the “The Original Dirty Thirty” patch of which I have 3 of. Dave PS If interested I have lots more on this group. Hi Dave, Here is my "Dirty Thirty" patch.Please post anything else that you have related to this group,or if possible,email me. I would LOVE to see anything related to this unit!Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patchcollector Posted September 5, 2011 Share #14 Posted September 5, 2011 Back view Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eriksale Posted September 5, 2011 Share #15 Posted September 5, 2011 Back view Steve I don't know if this means anything as I'm not a collector, but... none of my patches have backing, you can see the reverse image on all of them? Also look at the difference in the horns, all mine have the curled horns ? Now that being said the "second" group could have had a different design as well as the sewer? Attached is what I and a couple other "kids" wrote on "Patriotfiles.com" which is where this all started. Unfortunatley this site has been up and down. The thread "Dirty Thirty help" has 93 post if you can get to it. When I have the time there is actuall 8K feet of movie film in the N archives. AF was suppose to make a documentery on them. Enjoy and let me know anyother auestions. Dave dirty_Thirty_thread_PF.doc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patchcollector Posted September 5, 2011 Share #16 Posted September 5, 2011 Please disregard posts #11 and 12,my photos did not load! :blushing: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eriksale Posted September 5, 2011 Share #17 Posted September 5, 2011 Steve Just to add here are a couple of restored slides from my dad of the Dirty Thirty in action. FYI my dad was Ret Maj Carl R Erickson, 1925 - 2009 dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patchcollector Posted September 5, 2011 Share #18 Posted September 5, 2011 Hi Dave, Thanks for all the info! :thumbsup: Love to see the film footage too!As for the patch,it's authentic. I got it from a respected source,and I've collected Theatre made patches long enough to know that there are alot of variations,regarding design,materials,etc..I'm not sure when my patch was made though, could have been another batch.Thanks again for all the pics and info! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patchcollector Posted September 5, 2011 Share #19 Posted September 5, 2011 I know this thread has already gone seriously off track,but I was just wondering about something.In your post,you said,"They were also only the second group of American’s commanded by a foreign nation. Commander was Nygen Ko Key (sp), the first were volunteers under Lafayette in the war of 1812" Was'nt the WW1 era Ambulance volunteers subordinate to the French, as were the Flying Tigers under China? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eriksale Posted September 5, 2011 Share #20 Posted September 5, 2011 I know this thread has already gone seriously off track,but I was just wondering about something.In your post,you said,"They were also only the second group of American’s commanded by a foreign nation. Commander was Nygen Ko Key (sp), the first were volunteers under Lafayette in the war of 1812" Was'nt the WW1 era Ambulance volunteers subordinate to the French, as were the Flying Tigers under China? My info was based by many member's of the "Dirty Thirty" Not sure about the WW1 with the french, but as I recall none of the "Flying Tigers" were active duty American Servicemen when in China, they had been but as I recall they had to resign and then goto China, Dirty Thirty were all commisioned officers of the USAF on "loan" to the Vietnamese. I think that's the difference. I see what I can find on the real situation with Lafayette. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eriksale Posted September 5, 2011 Share #21 Posted September 5, 2011 Hi Dave,Thanks for all the info! :thumbsup: Love to see the film footage too!As for the patch,it's authentic. I got it from a respected source,and I've collected Theatre made patches long enough to know that there are alot of variations,regarding design,materials,etc..I'm not sure when my patch was made though, could have been another batch.Thanks again for all the pics and info! Steve Again I don't collect so don't know all the in's and outs. Just sent this URL to members of the "Dirty Thirty and received this reply from Col John Rathgeber. "Hi Dave Your patch is the real patch with the curl. Good hearing frrom you John Rathgeber" Also I'll attach Sq Pic of the first 30, don't know if you will be able to see but using a magnifing glass on the original, all have "curled" horns. Not trying to be argumentitive but do believe that the "history" should be correct. Hopeful this will also help you with any reasearch. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
River Patrol Posted September 6, 2011 Share #22 Posted September 6, 2011 SteveAgain I don't collect so don't know all the in's and outs. Just sent this URL to members of the "Dirty Thirty and received this reply from Col John Rathgeber. "Hi Dave Your patch is the real patch with the curl. Good hearing frrom you John Rathgeber" Also I'll attach Sq Pic of the first 30, don't know if you will be able to see but using a magnifing glass on the original, all have "curled" horns. Not trying to be argumentitive but do believe that the "history" should be correct. Hopeful this will also help you with any reasearch. Dave Hi Dave, Thanks for the solid information. I also have one of the original patches indirectly from a vet, and it is also the unbacked variety. Thanks, Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steverino Posted September 6, 2011 Share #23 Posted September 6, 2011 Just saw this and thought I'd ad. My dad was in the original 30 of “The Original Dirty Thirty” in Vietnam 1962 – 1963, there was a second group of 30 from Apr 63 to Dec 63.The description of the first patch in this thread is wrong, the info all-bull posted is correct. Facts about this group: They were the first recognized combatants in Vietnam, they were not advisors but sent over to replace VN pilots so they could go to fly fighters in the VNAF. They were also only the second group of American’s commanded by a foreign nation. Commander was Nygen Ko Key (sp), the first were volunteers under Lafayette in the war of 1812 Attached is a scan of the “The Original Dirty Thirty” patch of which I have 3 of. Dave PS If interested I have lots more on this group. I have seen at least one close up photo of one of the original Dirty Thirty pilots that had his patch with an attached tab that read "MAAG Vietnam". I could never track down that pilot, but what a heck of a great variation of an already super rare patch. Patch Johnson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eriksale Posted September 6, 2011 Share #24 Posted September 6, 2011 I have seen at least one close up photo of one of the original Dirty Thirty pilots that had his patch with an attached tab that read "MAAG Vietnam". I could never track down that pilot, but what a heck of a great variation of an already super rare patch. Patch Johnson Patch If you can tell me where this "tab" is I can look at the Sq photo and see if I can spot and on who? Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patchcollector Posted September 6, 2011 Share #25 Posted September 6, 2011 Hi Dave, With all due respect to the Colonel,while it would be nice to believe that any one man has seen it all, this almost always proves to not be the case.I think that I can say with a good amount of confidence that any unit Commander that served in Vietnam never saw all of the types and variations of the patches from his own unit. You've already stated that there was another"Dirty Thirty",which came as a surprise to me,because I believed that there were only the original 30!Do you know how many other "Dirty Thirty" crews there were?Thanks though for all the info on the unit,I'm not a unit historian,but I am a patch and badge collector, and I have a few things to say about the patch that I have posted here.One,it's an authentic piece,to the Vietnam war period,and to the unit.Two,I acquired it from a person that I trust just as much as you trust the Colonel. Three,theatre made patches have many variations,I have collected Vietnam era theatre and incountry made patches for over 10 years now,and I can say this with utmost certainty:I have not seen it all! I do have authentic examples of patches made during the war,incountry and theatre made,that have variations.They are all authentic,but to an untrained eye,some may appear to not be so.I have contacted vets,showing them pieces that are proven authentic,and a few of the vets actually refused to believe that the patch is real,as they had never seen it themselves.But many times,a patch will be made up and used before,or after the vet has been incountry;or it is made by a different shop,which is where the varieties spring up from.Either way,there are differences that us collectors look for,discuss,and hopefully,do not quickly discount simply because it is not exactly like the one that they have. Well,that's it from my end,welcome to the Forum and I hope that your interest in patch collecting will grow, it's a great hobby! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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