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Popular Pre-War AAF fantasy pattern - Fake wing? Restrike


John Cooper
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John Cooper

Hi all

 

Here is an interesting wing I picked up from another forum member. We are both at a loss as to this wing so I decided to post some photos to highlight the details and ask for some help. I have only been able to find one reference to this pattern wing which is the Fitzsimmons book.

 

Although the source has been discussed as being questionable I thought I should add it here.

Fitzsimmons book says the following:

 

Page 41 item #58 Amico. It is also illustrated on page 29 in the lower left corner as a pattern example.

 

The wing itself appears to be die struck brass with some type of silver or silver looking plate. As the photo should you can see the brass coming through. My suspicion is that this was a made for collectors wing but I have not proof. I will let the following photos do the talking but would like any information you can provide.

 

Cheers

John

 

post-227-1307738299.jpg

post-227-1307738312.jpg

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John,

 

I very much appreciate your efforts in investigating the origin of this specific pilot wing. I hope other collectors will share their knowledge, ideas and experiences with this uniquely designed aviation badge.

 

John, I've owned one very similar to yours for the past 22+ years, and have never been able to substantiate the answers you are now seeking. My example was purchased through a catalog mail-order auction around 1989. It varies slightly from yours with a straight "AMICO" hallmark near the center of the reversed shield. My wing has modest wear on both shoulders and brass tone is evident under the silver wash.

 

When I first owned the wing, I was very impressed with the crisp feathering detail and thought it was most certainly an authentic 1920's variation. I showed it around to a number of fellow collectors in the Los Angeles area and received positive reviews from most. During a local militaria show in the late 1990's, I showed it to a friend who told me the infamous Alan C. Beckman was reproducing and selling similar pattern pilot wings on ebay.

 

I found a newly produced shiny example of the same pattern wing (possibly rhodium plated) listed on ebay by Beckman. His ebay images of the wing were typically over-exposed and slightly off-focus, which is his standard when presenting reproductions to unsuspecting buyers. I contacted him regarding the source of the pilot wing die. Unfortunately, his response to my inquiry was aloof. He was vague as to the origin of the wing and would offer no background on his listed item.

 

So, years later, many questions remain unanswered regarding this wing. Do I think the wing is an authentic 1920's produced badge? I doubt it...but with hopeful reservation. Did Alan C. Beckman design and produce this wing several decades ago? I'm not certain...but I suspect he may be involved. I hope Alan, or someone in the know will enlighten us.

 

Russ

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Russ thanks for that wealth of information/experience on this. :thumbsup: And John thanks for bringing this question to the forum. :thumbsup: I would consider myself more of a newbie when it comes to wings as they have been a very limited part of my collecting over the years.

 

And realizing now that a lot of the fake foreign made wings look nicer then the original I guess the quality of the design is not always the way to say yea or nay. :unsure: Thanks to the forum for that enlightenment as well! :thumbsup: Do you know the persons Ebay ID so I can keep an eye out and avoid the possible pass off? Not to persecute but I like to be aware for my own good. :think: A private PM may be more appropriate? I like to try and keep the idea of innocent until proven guilty but watch out for yourself when dealing with a specific person.

 

Thanks guys,

Mark

 

P.S. I think Fakes have there place, for folks like me with less money to spend and for use strictly as displays to educate. However I also believe they should be marked as such.

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Although I can't remember the maker's name, the enhanced feathering is similar to some French made jump wings made over twenty years ago. I remember buying a set at the Great Western show, many years ago.

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:think:

 

 

John,

 

In response to the email you sent me, I saw that same badge listed on eBay a couple of weeks ago, item #160595856221. One identical to it was also listed on eBay several months ago. Other than those two, I've never see another one like it.

 

Russ Wilson has raised a red flag concerning the possibility that Alan Beckman (Fox Military Equipment Co.) might be connect to the badge in some way. I think Russ may be on to something and if I may take his comments one step farther, do I think Beckman may have designed the badge? Who can say for sure but back in the early to mid-1990s he did brag that with the latest (cad-cam) technology available at the time he could produce any die.

 

Something else which I think makes equally good sense:

 

It should also be pointed out that over the years Beckman managed to acquire many, many original "out dated" dies from several domestic manufactures. He also bought restrikes in bulk from manufactures who would not sell their dies.

 

Personally, I think who ever made the die for your (early style) pilot badge may have also made the die for the Enlisted Aviator badge pictured below which is in my collection. Both badges have similar features in the shoulder area and both were struck in a bronze alloy with a silver wash applied to it; however, unlike your pilot badge, the Enlisted Aviator badge pictured below has a BB&B hallmark on the back and it's also marked BRONZE. Now to my knowledge BB&B never sold any badges that did not carry their hallmark, and having said that here is another wrinkle to this mystery that should be considered. Pictured in a xeroxed catalog sent out by Beckman in 1996 is an identical looking Enlisted Aviator badge like the one below, priced for $35... but I don't know if it had any markings on the back. My question is, did Beckman have the die for it made or was it one he acquired from BB&B? Since BB&B did sell some of their dies back in the late 1980s or early 1990s I'm inclined to think the die came from them but only Beckman can answer that and he ain't talking.

 

Cliff

post-4542-1307802286.jpg

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Now this is something I would like to see the FBI follow up on rather then waiting time chasing un-named MOH’s! I won’t hold my breath though! :thumbdown: :mad: :disgust: :evilgrin:

 

 

Anyone have a copy of the advertisement of these fake wings that could be shared with the rest of us so I know a little better which ones to look out for? :think:

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Do you know the persons Ebay ID so I can keep an eye out and avoid the possible pass off?

 

 

Alan Beckman's ebay id is "USNUSA"

He currently has about a dozen various reproduction insignia listed on ebay.

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Alan Beckman's ebay id is "USNUSA"

He currently has about a dozen various reproduction insignia listed on ebay.

Maybe he's hooked up with the infamous Indiana source of freshly made rarities. Last time I looked at one of his eBay accounts he was doing well selling new Polish stuff to overseas buyers. Might be yet another reason you would be well advised to avoid identifying yourself as an American when traveling abroad.

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John Cooper

Hi all thanks for al the replies! I have been very busy recently and have fallen behind a bit on our shared passion. Now that I have a little spare time I wanted to reply to you all.

 

 

Russ -

Do I think the wing is an authentic 1920's produced badge?

 

No I suspected this was a very well made for collectors wing which is one of the reasons I wanted it so I can learn and share. I did not want to poison the well by posting all my thoughts in the hope others would post theirs. I think my ploy worked well :rolleyes:

 

As soon as I had the badge in hand I knew without a doubt this was not an early wing badge. It is hard to put into words but you can "feel" the difference once in your hand. Additionally the way the fittings are attached and the odd coating (I forget what jewlers call it) to give that aged tone.

 

BTW do you still have that badge?

 

John - Is the French maker you speak of J. Balme Paris?

 

Cliff - always a wealth of information sir! You and Russ both provided some interesting details about the Beckman connection... to bad he does not provide additional info. I for one would like to know if there are real wings in this patten out there because it is very nice indeed!

 

 

If anyone has a similar badge please let me know via PM or post back here.. the truth is out there! Together we can make the hobby stronger and keep the doors open for future generations by sharing what we know.

 

All the best!

 

PS - a bit off topic but I owe several folks replies to PMs (box is currently full) and emails. I will do my best to catch up in the near future.

 

John

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As for reference material with this wing. While I would agree that Fitzsimmon's book should be taken with a grain of salt (especially as an "expert" source), this particular pattern of wing is illustrated in the second Pinks and Greens book in the section on 20's and 30's wings. The photo doesn't give me enough detail to directly compare the wing in the book and the wings on this thread, but they do look pretty close.

 

I have also seen this wing show up in two different venues; First in the collection of a good and wise wing collecting friend who I hope will get out his camera and take good pictures for us to study. Second, by the original "wing king" who had just bought it at the Great Wester Gun show many years ago. In both cases, I was deeply envious that I didn't have that wing in my collection. In these three cases, the wings were marked AMICO.

 

Recently I have seen a number of this pattern, NONE of which were marked AMICO. In fact, the wings were either unmarked, or marked with the Fermin or Gaunt hallmark (can't recall which at this time). In all the more recent cases, the wings seem to be new, in unworn and near mint condition, with what looks like "patina in a can". While I know its not conclusive, in all the more recent cases, I felt no overwhelming desire to add those particular wings to my collection (not that they were offered for sale).

 

As for the source of these "new wings" vs the older wings... I have a theory. I still doubt that computer whatnots or laser thingamjigs can accurately reproduce a fake wing from an original template with enough skill to "fool" collectors. Instead, it would be my suspicion that someone procured an old die and is making restrikes, and trying to age them to look vintage.

 

What I find tends to happen with these type of restrikes (especially in the case of NS Meyers, but likely applicable to these wings) is that the first round of fakes are simple sold "as is" in the hope of caching the easy marks (unsuspecting and naive newbies). Later rounds of restrikes will try to up the ante with the addition of different pins, addition of fake hallmarks, and the like.

 

Finally, if these wings (for example the ones in the Pinks and Greens book) were actually MADE in the 1920's, when the number of US pilots was very very small, then you would expect these wings to be VERY VERY scarce. The fact that all of a sudden (more or less) a largish number of these wings start showing up, one has to suspect that some shenanigans are afoot.

 

Patrick

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  • 3 months later...
:think:

John,

 

In response to the email you sent me, I saw that same badge listed on eBay a couple of weeks ago, item #160595856221. One identical to it was also listed on eBay several months ago. Other than those two, I've never see another one like it.

 

Russ Wilson has raised a red flag concerning the possibility that Alan Beckman (Fox Military Equipment Co.) might be connect to the badge in some way. I think Russ may be on to something and if I may take his comments one step farther, do I think Beckman may have designed the badge? Who can say for sure but back in the early to mid-1990s he did brag that with the latest (cad-cam) technology available at the time he could produce any die.

 

Something else which I think makes equally good sense:

 

It should also be pointed out that over the years Beckman managed to acquire many, many original "out dated" dies from several domestic manufactures. He also bought restrikes in bulk from manufactures who would not sell their dies.

 

Personally, I think whoever made the die for your (early style) pilot badge may have also made the die for the Enlisted Aviator badge pictured below which is in my collection. Both badges have similar features in the shoulder area and both were struck in a bronze alloy with a silver wash applied to it; however, unlike your pilot badge, the Enlisted Aviator badge pictured below has a BB&B hallmark on the back and it's also marked BRONZE. Now to my knowledge BB&B never sold any badges that did not carry their hallmark, and having said that here is another wrinkle to this mystery that should be considered. Pictured in a xeroxed catalog sent out by Beckman in 1996 is an identical looking Enlisted Aviator badge like the one below, priced for $35... but I don't know if it had any markings on the back. My question is, did Beckman have the die for it made or was it one he acquired from BB&B? Since BB&B did sell some of their dies back in the late 1980s or early 1990s I'm inclined to think the die came from them but only Beckman can answer that and he ain't talking.

 

Cliff

 

Well, well, well, it seems that Alan Beckman (ebay id "USNUSA") is the (one) source for this early style, rarely seen wing badge made by an unknown maker.

 

See eBay item #150667879781

post-4542-1317073190.jpg

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  • 7 years later...

If those of you are interested in this old thread, here is what I believe is a fake being offered on eBay. I have always admired this pattern, but I am no longer sure that it actually represents a "real" vintage pilot wing.

 

Being sold as US Post World War I/Pre-WWII Army Balloon Pilot Observer Wing.

 

This looks to be a very good casting of one of Alan Beckman's fantasy pieces or perhaps a cutdown version of a full size wing?

 

One thing to note is the obvious "patina-in-a-can" finish of this wing. Normal wings will not age in this manner. Also, I never like wings with the little feathers that are simply straight lines off the larger feathers. Real wings usually have some more artistic merit than this. The pin is wrong, the catch is wrong.... It is too bad, because I have always wanted this pattern to be real.

 

Just an FYI

post-1519-0-57767400-1539983479_thumb.jpg

post-1519-0-27860800-1539983488_thumb.jpg

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I'm with you Patrick. My opinion right now is that these were always a fantasy wing. I've yet to see one for sale from an estate or anyone that wasnt the usual shady repro sellers. Some I've seen have better pins and finishes than these posted but all have been bad.

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Agreed that this is a casting of the 1st gen fantasy or Beckman wing. I've been able to inspect one of the 'original' pilot patterns. It was purported to be brass with a worn silver wash. Turns out it was silver with a chemically applied brass-like finish to the highlights, shoulders, etc.; a lot of effort went into that one. Perhaps the piece in post 19 has a similar finish. The eBay seller of this has quite a source for this type of material and has been pedaling the stuff since eBay's early days.

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